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More and more I’m convinced most Americans have no idea what a liberal, leftist, or other terms actually are. They’re just parroting the words they hear from their feeds.
‘Liberal’ is the funniest because both red and blue accuse each other of being them. My guess is blues think liberalism is laissez-faire and the reds think it’s woke social freedoms. They’re both slightly on the right track, but not at all.
And in the rest of the free world…
Liberals: No one should live in poverty regardless of their ability to perform labour.
Leftists: Yoooo, 40 hrs is fucked. What is this, the 1300s?
Liberals: Actually, yeah that is kind of fucked. An employer shouldn’t be ble to encroach on an employee’s life that much. This is an imbalance of liberties.
Leftist: Great! So what are we going to do bout it?
Liberals: Fuck all. We can’t be sure employees don’t want this too. Besides, someone will sort it out soon, they always do.
Leftists: I’ll donate a union $5 so I can tell my friend I’m left.
And in the next five years, some prolific young gun politician swoops in the 35 hour work week. But due to cultural reasons, everyone keeps working 40 hours and gets plenty of overtime for it. This having the employer pay more and the employee see little benefit because the state haven’t adjusted their now dated tax brackets. But along with very good minimum wage standards and an unemployment rate < 5%, both the leftist and the liberal never found the true source of the poverty and so continued using foreign corporations and large franchise to fulfill almost all of their needs. And everyone but their local infrastructures and communities lived happily ever after until the next global recession hit. The leftist and liberal “really meant it this time” when they said they’d support local and try to live more independently, but the inconvenience of it meant they silently did not.
The difference is liberals believe in a system of laws that can be tweaked and perfected for the greatest good but never fundamentally changed, leftists believe in change
Of course you’re over there arguing over less hours or not, we’re over here arguing if we should still have science
We don’t have a functioning system to tweak
In america, the words are essentially synonomous to the general public.
Liberals: Fuck all. We can’t be sure employees don’t want this too. Besides, someone will sort it out soon, they always do.
Leftists: I’ll donate a union $5 so I can tell my friends I’m left.
The most real understanding of our political world tbh.
My experience has more been along the lines of. 5 people are voting:
1 votes to make things better
2 don’t vote
2 vote to make things worse even for themselvesI tried watching some right wing stuff and some interviews with right wing voters to see if there was a perspective I’m missing but often it was literally ‘I know there’s no evidence for this but I believe it anyway’.
From my understanding, they would love those helpful things, but as soon as they hear the person they dislike might be helped or benefit it makes their blood boil because they hate that guy. I believe this is the crux of some of the issues.
This is what makes even the first part of this post happen where liberals try to negotiate, they offer a “okay what about if the person works 40 hours” and the answer they get back is still a “NO”.
I do think it’s possible to convince these people, but you really have to sell it as “there is the billionaires and then the rest of us who are hard working people”. Senator Bernie Sanders has had success in West Virginia doing this, so maybe if we can get some progressive campaigns going to these small towns, listening to the concerns of the locals, and uniting these people under this common concern it can help build some bridges.
“Rest of the world.”
Let me introduce you to the Swedish political party, The Liberals. Their ideologies are things like
- Muslims bad
- Immigrants bad
- We should collaborate with the Nazi party
- We should monitor citizens private communication
- Criminals should receive harsher punishments
They’re socially very conservative, and historically have been economically liberal. There are weird outliers however, like the other year when they almost tore themselves apart debating the legal nuances around incest.
Hear me out here, maybe, the words mean slightly different things based on the cultural associations with those words?
I don’t disagree that they used differently from Europe and the rest of the world, but those terms have regionally unique meanings in the US.
Liberal here means more pro-business/capitalism. It doesn’t inherently mean pro-unregulated capitalism though, nor pro-big corporations/billionaires.
Leftist here means supports left leaning policies. That can range quite a bit, and likely is more left-of-center.
I think your breakdown is an accurate representation of politics regardless. Lots of people saying they want this or that, but not a ton of action actually going forward to change things. Yet alone there even being big incentives for those in power to actually implement those changes.
To me, it feels like positive change has to happen locally and at a state level, since people don’t necessarily care to want what they are unfamiliar with.
This is a bit like responding “All lives matter” when hearing about Black Lives Matter.
It’s more like “End Slavery” not “End Debt Bondage”.
One is clearly more serious than the other and it’s not the 40 hr workers.
I’m sure you can get into the anti-confederate nature of that.
Liberals: Works 40 hours a week.
Leftists: Whines 40 hours a week without working.
The funny part is the only reason I don’t really want to work right now is because everybody fuckin sucks and makes it miserable. I’m a systems administrator and if all I had to do was computer work I would be perfectly happy I could work more than 40 hours. The problem is that 90% of my job is kissing ass to people that know literally nothing about computers desperately trying to get something halfway correct done while the retard in charge who hasn’t understood computers for over 20 years now overrides and makes a dumbass decision that is guaranteed to cause problems, trying to preemptively get ready for when it inevitably causes the exact problems I said it would cause and having to deal with the cleanup and getting blamed for it even though I at every possible meeting made it clear that this was a bad idea.
So yeah I don’t want to work , but that’s not because I’m lazy it’s because fuck other people lol
You literally just supported my point.
Conservative weirdo says what, what are you work-maxed
If taking care of a family, working, and not demanding entitlements without putting any effort into anything like the billionaires and bottom feeders makes me conservative then I guess I’m conservative, even though I’d rather see conservatives thrown into the everglades one by one.
Seriously though, what have you actually contributed to society other than Lemmy platitudes?
Ok. Brevity is the source of wit, so what were you saying again🫣🫣🫣
Why are disadvantaged people “bottom feeders”? That’s a very common conservative sentiment.
Not everybody is as strong or as able as you, and not everybody has had your privilege. I don’t need to know your story to say that and I don’t give a fuck about how hard you think you’ve had it. You at least have a functioning body, many people that you might consider “bottom feeders” don’t have that.
It would be desirable to everyone for life to be easier for everyone. Just because you may have struggled, making things better for everyone doesn’t invalidate that - no matter how much you might kick and scream at the notion of giving everybody the right to a dignified life.
Oh wow, I didn’t know you were a socialist! The USSR famously had 40 hour working week and there was 0% unemployment rate. I’m glad to see more people supporting socialism <3
Both things can be true.
One step at a time.Is our next step going to be passing conservative legislation and pretending its a win for 15 years again?
Yeah, splitting up isn’t a great thing right now. Let’s team up together and fight the nazis.
Shitlibs can’t do anything but blame the left for their failures and deny we exist. And suck Nazi dick. They can fall in line or fuck off–if a shitlib wants to volunteer as a warm body for something I’m doing without trying to subvert it I won’t turn them away, but I doubt that would happen–i have seen zero interest in coalitions or opposing fascism.
Please feel free to prove me wrong.
I don’t need to prove you wrong, I just need to sit back and watch your every effort come to nothing. Proceed!
I can’t tell if this is a bit.
What they were trying to say is now is not the time to divide eachother
Cool maybe they should fall in line then.
OR maybe you should team up on the incremental progress for now, and then show them why more work is needed. You don’t need to be the divisive one.
Who is the incremental progress team? I see the Democrats who pretend to be the incremental progress team, but are really decremental, and the Republicans who are openly decremental.
Weird how ‘compromise to a common end’ always means ‘do my thing and ignore that other thing and also ignore what you wanted’.
Why are you pretending like that’s what they said? One concept is a progression of the same idea but taken beyond the other one - you’re just claiming it’s not because you want to be divisive and pretend like you’re holding the morally correct position to trigger people.
It’s transparent and like… nobody seems to be taking the bait, so why are you even still trying?
Some of the people you see that are dumping on any incremental progress are pro-authoritarian, accelerationists. I believe most of those ones are bad actors/bots though. Any real leftist is wanting to help people however they can/actively helping those in their communities.
People aren’t dumping on incremental progress, largely. The issue is that there has been nobody in power meaningfully working on or achieving that incremental progress. The Democrats just gaslight everybody into thinking they are working towards the incremental progress that we hope for and expect from them, while being blind to the problems and solutions.
Progressives are the ones who are disenfranchised, alienated, and ratfucked - it’s time for you to realize that.
Can you kindly provide some examples of what you’re talking about?
of a thing not happening? um, sure; here i guess.
Great! Can you please explain some of the specific things you are doing? You mentioned this in your previous comment. Specifically the part about coalitions and such.
can you explain
No, sorry.
They can fall in line or fuck off–if a shitlib wants to volunteer as a warm body for something I’m doing without trying to subvert it I won’t turn them away
Cool! Was this just a lie then?
It’s almost like some people here desperately want to create division in the left.
Glad to see it backfiring on one post.
Im willing to work with anyone who has a real backbone and is acturally willing to fight fascism. People who reject all fascism even a compromised fascism lite.
You’re the only person in here talking about splitting up?
Let’s just make sure when this is over, that actual leftists are put in charge so we don’t get a repeat of this in 20 years.
Let’s just make sure when this is over, that actual leftists are put in charge
Leftist don’t want to get organized to be a third party or vote as left as they can in major parties. They won’t be in charge because they don’t want to be engaged.
People who are not represented by the two party system are disenfranchised by First-past-the-post voting.
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
Dude, the leftists shitting on liberals thing is extremely strong around here. You would think the only enemy in sight is the Democratic Party to hear some tell it. Oh look, here comes someone right now to do exactly that!
Well then maybe the Democratic party should stop supporting the Facsists, and should start fighting against them.
The Democratic Party is the insidious great apologizer for Capital. The Democrat Party funds the wars, were the original kings of “mass deportation”, and have been the architects of numerous an austerity policy that has betrayed and immiserated the working class.
The Democratic Party is the more advanced villain, as they wrap their rhetoric in the language of moralism to make them immune to criticism from more “left wing” moralizers. Which is why many are stuck arguing to death in petty fights with the rhetoric of reform and moralism of the Left Wing of Capital while the republicans are more openly evil who are easy to dismiss and not argue with.
Only through recognizing both the Democratic and Republican party as institutions of class control will you ever make progress.
Yes Dems are antilib/antileft as well
Walking in the direction of only one.
Because the other is merely a stop on the way.If you don’t strive for the best option, you’ll settle for compromise.
Yeah you get the compromise first, people realize that it’s great, and push farther from that. Taking the big leap, while not impossible, is much harder and less likely to succeed the way you want.
But you don’t really seem to care about nuance and just want more excuses to insult people who aren’t as left as you are. Obviously even liberals think ubi is the best option
Obviously even liberals think ubi is the best option
And leftists don’t.
UBI is a bandage for capitalism, it’s not a real solution anyone should be pushing for and will remain at risk of being cut for as long as it’s ever implemented.
That’s what politics is, compromise. That’s why “they” say to shoot for the biggest thing you want, because half way there is still better than when you first started.
No, that’s what centrism is, compromise with the right.
We fight for what we want, and we don’t stop halfway sorry.
We fight for what we want
Sure you do buddy, how is that working out?
It’s been working out when leftists are an actual option on the ballot. How has centrism been working out lately?
I’m critiquing their claim of fighting by shitposting on the internet, they’re not out there with a gun stopping fascists, so they can hardly claim to be fighting.
I’ve seen more of this type of accelerationist, cultist talk cropping up lately. As a leftist-liberal, I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive where we can’t be pushing for that incremental positive change while still wanting more.
The fact that over 50% of those on the right, who are in power, don’t want positive change at all -even that incremental change- is what is the worrying sign.
We should be pushing for progressives to be in office and implement these progressive policies at the state level, as it’s clear that we have a big up-hill challenge to get any progressive policies passed federally.
this type of accelerationist, cultist talk cropping up lately
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
Nah I’m agreeing with you; I’m talking about the type of person you replied to though.
When was the last time a lib compromised with a socialist or anarchist? With anyone to the left of mecha-thatcher?
Do you even know off the top of your head the compromise positions on police abolition Zionism worker control of the means of production/not living in exploitative tyranny half your waking life abolition of borders universal housing bodily autonomy massive inequality/billionaires the elimination of precarity or environmental sustainability? Like, have you ever heard any of them articulated by a lib?
Edit: has anyone ever in their life heard a lib articulate what a compromise with the left might look like? Once? One single time?
Leftists always have to shut up and fall in line. If we don’t we’re fracturing and we’re the problem, yet the centrist libs never make an effort to compromise or meet our modest expectations on the value of human life.
Because the ratio of libs to leftists is like 10:1 at minimum. Obviously they control the conversation, that’s how democracy is supposed to work. We can’t control the conversation from the minority.
Right but have you literally ever heard a shitlib say what compromise with the left might look like? Like ever? Any proposal? An elected figure or your cringe shitlib aunt or literally any of them?
Or do they just mean ‘compromise the left’ as in ‘to a permanent end’?
What do you mean? Compromise on what issues exactly?
I agree with pretty much everything under the sun with left leaning policy. I’m a leftist-liberal since I don’t think those points are inherently mutually exclusive.
Gave a shortish list elsewhere in this thread, find it or don’t.
I think this stance isn’t quite the full picture. The issue I see in the US is that over 50% of the people in power federally, Republicans, don’t want even those very moderate positions voted in.
It’s not an issue of leftists being too left, but an issue of there not being enough people sold on leftists views in all the red/purple states. When the 40 hour a week requirement isn’t even getting sold, of course those people further right aren’t voting in a more considerate option.
Really, I feel the issues stem from many people believing that we were close to getting the liberal goals passed federally. Now, it looks like we’re starting back several steps with how much 2024 was a backstep. At this point, trying to get those leftist programs implemented at the state level is the most logical thing to do, specifically in blue states.
I think blue states held off on implementing most of these programs since it is very expensive and it would have made way more sense to fund all these programs federally, but that’s not realistic now. Blue states need to be willing to go into debt to fund these progressive programs, and only after they are implemented and the people are benefiting is it likely that purple/red states also buy into trying these programs.
Don’t get me wrong, the corporate Dems aren’t the ones trying to get these programs implemented at the state level. For that reason, we should primary the non-progressive Dems. Better yet, we should try to get an alternative voting system implemented in each of our states so we get more politicians like Mamdani in office.
Specifically that first one, then we break your legs and shackle you to something so you dont get ideas.
Progressive purity tests help the billionaires and right more than they help us make progress toward a future were common people aren’t treated like trash.
Nothing and no one will ever be good enough for some of these people, so fascists will continue to keep their power.
Lots of people are good enough, they’re just not lifetime DNC candidates with compromised allegiances and paid by lobbyists.
Such a low hurdle will forever be insurmountable to some of these centrists.
Ask the top to apply their thinking to retirement. That might make them think a little deeper.
“Oh it’s different, we’ll have earned it” - Liberals
that’s not how it works though
Neither is how it works, the point is to change how it works so that we achieve these goals.
that’s way beyond the function of a meme pic though
No shit. If it worked a different way people wouldn’t be talking about it.
X: We have a non-fascist competent party - ?
Y: No! Only leftism!
X: Well, howabout the fascist party.
Y: Only Leftism!
X: That’d be the fascist party then.
X: We have a non-fascist competent party - ?
Y: No! No parties, no state.
lol you’re really leaning into the Democratic voter suppression the last day or so. What’s got your jimmies so ruffled? You bitched up because Charlie Kirk got shot and taking it out on the rest of us?
Nothing has changed in my views at all.
Are you annoyed that leftists have different opinions to you. Do you want to stop me from sharing mine so you can only promote yours?
lol
You’re not a leftist. You’re a fascist aggressively trying to devide actual leftists and prevent coalition building by creating false equivalence and misrepresenting other peoples opinions in an attempt to help fascists solidfy their power through voter suppression.
You’re a stochastic terrorist encouraging apathy and disengagement from people who may actually have good intentions around making genuine progress.
Oh get off it with the pseudo intellectual ad hominem nonsense.
Stop trying to co-opt a growing grass roots movement back towards the left, so that you can re-align it with some corpo-centrist nonsense that doesn’t hold up to what people want and need.
And you better start understanding fast that the fascists already have their power solidified.
lol
Y: No! No parties, no state.
Far out. Good luck! Watch out for human nature, i’ve heard it’s a real rhymes-with-witch.
I don’t know about your country, but our “non-fascist” party lost to a cartoon villain, so I wouldn’t call them competent. All it would’ve taken was not treating their voters with disdain and acting like they cared, but apparently that was too difficult.
And before anyone tries to direct blame at the base that got demoralized by shitty leadership, actually consider why you never direct that blame at the people with all power to shape their campaigns; the people who are supposed to “represent” their constituents.
I blame the people who voted Trump the most and the non voters the second most.
The Democrat should have been able to run a half empty can of expired crab juice and won.
The Democrat should have been able to run a half empty can of expired crab juice and won.
That’s the problem, they kept doing that every election.
Biden did a fantastic job and they listened to the people who thought Biden was too old and ran Harris who would have been great.
Even if you don’t like her life would be a thousand times better right now for everyone in the world.
Biden did a terrible job. It took Biden hobbling out on stage, and making the Democrats the laughing stock of the world for them to do anything.
And what did they do? Put in a highly unpopular candidate, who kept saying that one of the least popular presidents we ever had was doing a good job.
Did you make this account just to say that?
No, I had an account, and said that. Why would I make an account just for that?
A shame you don’t recognize how much of a problem the Democrats are. I voted blue just like I had in every election before then, but I was so angry and scared, because I saw all the mistakes they made that cost us everything. I saw them ignore young people on TikTok and Israel. I saw them shy away from every possible hint of populism. I saw as they denied that the economy was terrible, praying the inflation would even out even though inflation was merely the tip of the iceberg.
Life would be 1000 times better if Harris won, but the fault lies squarely on the ruling class and the party elites. They refused to do what was necessary to unite their base, and as disappointed as we can be in the voters working 9-5s with no hope of ever owning a future, it was the party’s responsibility to win them over. Instead they underperformed in all those demographics because they refused to acknowledge problems or propose solutions. A party that has only become worse and will only fight the left.
A shame you don’t recognize how much of a problem the Democrats are. I voted blue just like I had in every election before then, but I was so angry and scared, because I saw all the mistakes they made that cost us everything.
Kid, I don’t know how many decades you’ve been doing this, but I’ve been doing it longer. Don’t preach that shit to me. Your “ignoring kids on TikTok” is hilarious because it’s so far down the list of the ways in which they routinely fuck up.
Life would be 1000 times better if Harris won, but the fault lies squarely on the ruling class and the party elites.
Comrade, you can bourgoise yourself blue if you want to but that’s just jerking off and ignoring the real issues. The real issues are: public involvement, messaging, and organizational communication.
It’s not a cabal of Zionist elites wrecking things, that’s what Bolsheviks tell college kids because they don’t know any better. It’s getting people to show up, and allowing members to communicate as individuals while operating as a national millions-strong political entity.
It’s hard to do honestly. I mean, it’s easy to do if you’re corrupt, stupid, and fascist. It’s hard to do if you’re honestly trying to do the right thing.
And whichever large city you’re in, please note the Slaver’s College requires you to engage with vast tracts of unpopulated land, and maybe they’re not as on board with luxury gay space communism as we are yet. (See the “messaging” part.)
Your “ignoring kids on TikTok” is hilarious because it’s so far down the list of the ways in which they routinely fuck up.
It wasn’t an important issue in the grand scheme of things, but it probably had a larger impact in driving away kids than most people want to admit. Voters often ignore actually important issues in favor of what they see in their daily life.
Also not sure where you got the idea that I thought Jewish cabals were why Democrats lost. AIPAC strategies to sink Democrats that oppose them are well known and explain their influence in the party, but the Gaza issue alone was only one brick in a very large wall. I’m not sure why you think being condescending is helpful. I’m not even sure if you’re coming at this from a bone headed liberal perspective, or a boneheaded ml perspective; I guess they’re both the same at the end of the day.
When MAGA wanted change they took over the party.
The left just bitches that no one is listening to them and it’s sad.
Nah, what I’m saying is we need to take over the party and purge the feudalists acting as controlled opposition. That requires recognizing that there is a problem with the shit they feed us, not pretending that it’s anything but shit. That requires not doing the same fucking bullshit party elites do of denying that the situation is terrible. That requires not giving up and believing there is no other way than sucking corporate dick.
Fear is how MAGA radicalized their base, and we have nothing but reasons to be afraid right now.
they listened to the people who thought Biden was too old
WHAT? They refused to do it for so long it cost them the election.
That is some bad historical revisionism when it’s so fresh in our memory.
You’re not actually disagreeing. They did wait too long, but they did it. You agree. That in itself is important. Can you imagine any republiQan doing that? No, because they only think about themselves.
Hell, they elected a demented rapist who’s stroking out every week instead of a legitimate candidate.
Historical revisionism? Not at all.
The party has told their sheep to ignore their history, it’s time for party funding and voting for the “lesser evil”.
People who wanted Trump in or would didn’t care if he made it in or not cost them the election.
And yet you’re still supporting the fascist. Interesting.
How is it supporting fascism? Please, enlighten us.
I wouldn’t call them competent.
Well you’d be wrong. We’d have a functioning government for one. For two, it’d be in line with the Constitution instead of in direct opposition to it helped along by six corrupt justices.
If that’s not competent, we might need to start with a definition.
All it would’ve taken was not treating their voters with disdain and acting like they cared
Ugh.
Ugh.
What? Is it so hard to believe that the Democrats dropped the ball? Do you not remember how they said nothing as police attacked student protesters during the free Palestine protests? When they said nothing as a group of random Israeli aligned thugs attacked people doing a peaceful sit in? When it took months for them to even acknowledge that Netanyahu wasn’t exactly looking out for hostages? This is all without missing the even bigger issue, “the economy stupid,” that they are still in denial about. Just because Trump’s actively crashing it doesn’t mean it was heading in the right direction before.
I’m not justifying anyone sitting out the election, but I am explaining why some people probably did. It doesn’t matter how competent they were in office when they lost to a fascist who told everyone his intentions to be a dictator. They weren’t even clear enough about it being the last election to prevent collapse of liberal democracy. They didn’t fear monger hard enough quite frankly, and they still don’t. It’s disappointing beyond words.
Theyfucked up normally. This wasn’t them going out of their way to “show they didn’t care”, and there were plenty of Dems who spoke out, they just don’t have the mic and themic owners aren’t going to give them it.
They played it safe, again, and they fucked up, again.
Frankly every single idiot bastard that didn’t vote or voted trump can be written off as a poor excuse for humanity for fucking this up. Yes, I blame the Democrats but not half as much as I blame these self-righteous fuckwits who chose not to vote or who voted trump.
Stupid fucking shitweasels got us here, maybe they should wake the fuck up to how they fucked up instead of pointing at the one national party that exists to support them.
- X: We have a non fascsist competent party.
- Y: Do you oppose genocide?
- X: Of course not, we are owned by AIPAC.
- Y: Do you support the rights of Trans people?
- X: Of course not, acturally we hate minorities and blame them when we loose.
- Y: Are you at least competent?
- X: Absolutely not, we will compromise with Fascism and give in to every demand like a wet napkin.
- Y: So why should I vote for you?
- X: Fuck you, you’re dividing the left.
OP doesn’t understand what these terms mean.
You think the democrats are radical leftists, don’t you?
No? But you probably think Trump is since you’re comparing liberals and leftists.
I am one of the radical leftists.
Why would I think right wingers are us?
It’s nuts to me that “everyone should have access to housing, food, healthcare, and education” is somehow a radical take. It’s literally nothing but beneficial to society at large.
Liberals are the opposite of authoritarians, they aren’t left or right but a description of people’s view towards government regardless of political leanings.
Communists, Anarchists, Libertarians are all examples of liberals.
Trump is an authoritarian which aligns with your stated view of leftists not being liberal (being authoritarians)
Those are not liberals.
Liberalism is free trade, it’s private ownership of property - both right wing. At the tail end of liberalism is a little bit of social freedom which is somewhat left, once you remove all the qualifiers Libs put on welfare.
I did state you didn’t know the term.
I like the spirit but were not japan, we have to consider the antisocials.
There need to be requirments to meet to receive entitlements.
Also though capitalism is just bad at providing necessities, slapping a ubi on top wont fix it.
No.
No fucking requirements on human worth, and living is not a bloody entitlement.
man existing requires work, whether we like it or not. freeloading hurts peoples interest in the common good.
Here’s a requirement for you:
- Be alive.
Literally nobody consented to be born. So everything needed to keep a living person alive should be a right.
While yes i don’t want to slave away most of my time by effectively working 10hrs in my 40hr work week.
yet- he who does not work shall not eat.
We overproduce an abundance of food.
There are people who cannot labour or be materially productive members of society, they are no less important or worthy of basic humanity.
A persons value is not limited to what you can extract from them.
i know my claim sounds confrontative, of course we should provide people with access to our abundand resources and some people are mentally or physically unable to work - you can’t expect them to provide something to society as they rely on us to survive.
but everyone who’s able should provide something.
no the abundance doesn’t come from 40-80hr wage slavery done by billions.
BUT the abundance comes from actual work done by billions.
Abundance comes from advancement of tech and tools, not just from labour.
If only the “40 hours a week” people deserve to live outside poverty then this exclude many other people who are without a doubt productive for society and even capital.
Many scholars never got money from their contributions, they didn’t even get recognition within their life. They for sure contributed positively to the society. Yet their works was not included in “40 hrs work week”.
Housewives also provide labour without which the society can not function, they are also within this categories.
Open source devs also don’t get paid for their work. Yet their hobby does in fact lead to productivity.
By restricting our definition to “40 hrs work week”, we overlook many of these segments.
look i think i am just bad with words. i agree. i don’t consider work as “beating hammers for 5hrs” but as contributing something. labour is labour. open source devs do work, scientists do work, mothers do work. everything is work in some form, as long as it contributes to society.
the 40hrs are an arbitrary time window while a lot of people only use a fraction of this time productively.
Free humanity from the burden of unwanted labours.
What are you talking about? When i was born in the '80s, being unemployed for more than a few month was criminal offense in most socialist European countries. Leftism is beneficial in moderation, but definitely not every leftism is bestism if this is your only criteria for “bestism”
Which European countries were socialist in the 80s?
Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Chekoslovakia, Poland, the whole USSR. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_parasitism_(offense) Yugoslavia and Albania were socialist too but I’m not sure if there was law against unemployment there.
The soviet union was an authoritarian one party state my guy
I agree. But I don’t get why are you saying it like that. It was a socialist, authoritarian state. All of these countries were at the time. Maybe I’m missing something.
How can the workers be in control of the means of production if they aren’t even in control of their own lives? What a silly thing to say.
To be honest I do feel a bit silly continuing this. However, are you trying to say that socialism is not a leftist mode of government? How would you categories the policies of socialist/communist dictatorships, centrist? Workers were not above the law, and had no input what sad laws were. But workers did own the factoryies and the kolhoz. Most of these governments collapsed because they lost the support of the proleteriat (workers). It was not the will power of the political elites that hold it to gether, but the millions of workers sincere belief that they are making the world a better place.
Social democracy is good to live in; yeah true. Leftism (in general) is bestism; hell no.
Liberals: We should compromise with the fascists and blame trans people for our incompetence
Leftists: DOWN WITH FASCISM AND DOWN WITH BIGOTRY
I am a Leftist and agree with the Leftists take but the Liberal in this meme has a more effective message. The majority of people have issues neurologically with truly caring about things they can’t at least imagine affecting them and there are a huge number of people working their asses off 40+ hours a week while struggling to get by. Not that we should abandon the elderly or disabled but we should be diverse in our messaging and who it targets.
The leftists have the easiest message, it’s provide for everyone. It can literally effect anyone.
The liberal messaging muddies the message up, making it unimaginable that it could effect people outside of the narrow scope it presents
