swapping the dems in, if it were even possible (it isnt, especially now) would be like changing captains of the titanic after it hit the iceberg. its still gonna sink no matter what. its by design. the debts too big, and the game is over.
the sacrificial goat was the US, and now a new shithole state rises from the ashes. and its blue print will stretch across the world to all the US’s former allies in time.
doesnt matter whos the face of it anymore, there are contingencies on both sides that will make sure this continues no matter who gets popped.
position yourself accordingly.
This is the Paradox of Tolerance in practice.
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Why ankles when it could be necks?
Morbid jokes aside. I agree, nothing will change without intense and painful protest or revolution. Peaceful protest only works when your opposition has a conscience.
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Yeah that’s fair. Not normally a fan of tradition, but I’d be happy make an exception here.
Check again
“Me” is also one of the “grey NPCs” sooo
Unmute this meme immediately!
We get it. You don’t like liberal Dems.
Make your own party. Go. Do something.
do anything please
Well… You’re not wrong.
But it’s not helpful to doom about these things.
I dunno, acknowledging the problems seems like a good start
Everyone I know is already aware of the fact that we’re bracing through a torrent of garbage. I’m terrified that reluctant voters are going to choose the party that will turn the pressure higher or ignore the flesh stripping blast. My skin has peeled to the bone. Throwing suspicion at the only people capable of closing the valve is not relevant to me.
A prerequisite to getting into a position where one is “capable of closing the valve” is to prove, beyond any doubt, that they are not a person who could ever dream of closing that valve. Even a little bit.
You are being one of those “ignore the flesh stripping blast” as you tell others that “throwing suspicion” is “not relevant”. Motherfucker we’ve been throwing a lot more than just suspicion at them for 50+ years and they won’t do shit. I’m glad you’ve got enough bodies between you and that nozzle so that the level of inaction is irrelevant to you, but that’s not true for your shields.
Dude, we’re a decent proportion of the way into the transition to fascism. Your absence of situational awareness and reading comprehension is going to sway people toward cranking up the pressure. Again.
In what world does my saying that my flesh has been stripped to the bone indicate that I haven’t been affected? Read between the lines, ya doofus
If they’re capable of closing the valve, why haven’t they? They either complain they don’t have the votes to make a difference; or when they do have the votes, they say “this is the time to compromise” or whatever lame excuse to continue to do nothing.
Lemmy has been chock-full of these memes critical of the dems since the election. How much more of this “good start” is needed before people move on to the next step (whatever it might be)?
You’re right. Everything’s ok.
/s
Dude, the US is on fire. Pointing out that there’s a sewage leak is unhelpful.
If you look at a forest fire, you can’t do anything, so the thing is to weather it out/ contain it and try to prevent it happening. Looking at a trash can fire, you try to put it out before it gets out of hand.
I agree with that sentiment too.
But they are. Think what the message is implying here. Don’t do the things that are actually important to actually pull votes to your side. There’s no point since it’s all rigged. This post is propaganda.
This post is like some political consultant group found things that could sway an election and turn tides and then inverted it to imply those things are just silly
This post is propaganda.
So is this reply. Also being propaganda is funny in this case since nothing here says anything about not voting, just that currently the two party system has broken down and no longer feels like democracy (due to how it is not). In this case who would the propaganda be for? The democrats? Not likely, they are not helped here. The republicans? Don’t think they care, many don’t plan on having fair elections again. Big molotov?
This helps Republicans. You’re not going to see that. But that’s why the left is in the situation they are in. You’re all still in the stone age that you’re not relevant anymore. It’s not that the Democrats are shit. The entire left are so far behind that they won’t catch up anytime soon
Not a democrat, not even an american.
The us is no longer a democracy, and is fast becoming the next global pariah state.
It’s still a democracy. There is still a lot of order and authority keeping things running. It’s just a shit show right now. But places like Lemmy and other social media radicalizing people are trying to undo it
That’s not what a democracy is. North Korea has a lot of order and authority keeping things running as well for example.
Every form of government requires that.
NGL memes like this just read like Doomer Cope and Fascist propaganda.
Uh… it’s either or? Doomer cope is what it openly is, while masquerading for faschism therefore being propaganda?
Oh, that’s because that’s exactly what it is
How’d “not voting to punish the dems” work last time?
It’s really weird to blame individuals for the failures of an organization. They can plan and change and strategize. The random voter your screaming at is a void. Stop being angry at the void, be angry at the thing that can actually change and do something.
voting only works if you also put in the work after the fact. When biden got elected, suddenly all the political fervor of the previous ~4 years vanished. And, assuming we get out of the current morass in one piece, it’s likely that all the uproar going on now will similarly disappear once “our guy” is in the oval office again.
Voting is the least any person can do, but without pounding the pavement and going out and doing the legwork, it’s just a bone they throw to us so we shut up. It happens every time, in every presidential election I can remember, and yet there are still people out here saying “but dae vote or dont complain!!:!:!:!:!”!“!”!?!!:!L!". It’s insulting.
There are few, if any, actually effective political movements that relied solely on officially approved political avenues to achieve anything. The Civil Rights movement in the US didn’t merely vote until the federal government deigned them worthy of being treated like human beings; they got out in the streets and demanded equality. The Indian Independence movement didn’t succeed by only appealing to the official colonial political apparatus using whatever methods were allowed them. They went and earned it.
So, whenever the liberal voting bloc is ready to stop letting themselves be politically infantilized by the electoral process, get at me.
Of two evils, you have to choose the lesser. Well, for those in power, so to speak, power corrupts or simply leaves no choice, so the choice is not easy.
After the 3rd real life trolley problem people kinda just stop playing philosophy as a protest.
The greatest evil obviously is limiting the choices to evil – some pure satan shit right there
Okay, I’ll tell you my thoughts more precisely – let’s say a new person came to power and from the shadows a secret government of the world comes to him and says – “If you don’t play by our rules, we’ll kill you, rape your little daughter, etc. You understand, you have no choice, puppy!”
That is, even if someone wants to restore justice, secret families and other people intoxicated with power will not allow this if it is not beneficial to them.
In the end, there is no point in even choosing while the world is ruled by Satanists.
I’ve got a solution, get rid of Facebook and Fox News in your Maga people’s lives. Put parental controls on their TVs if you can and try to convince them that Fox News was bought out or something. It’s the constant deluge of bullshit that’s causing this.
MAX FISHER: The places where Facebook usage - not general internet usage, but specifically Facebook usage - was significantly above the average for Germany, the number of attacks on refugees was also well above the average.
SHAPIRO: That’s author Max Fisher, who writes about this research in his new book, “The Chaos Machine.” It’s not just that violence against refugees went up in places where people used Facebook a lot. The researchers also looked at outages - Facebook disruptions - and they found that when the platform went offline in a specific place, attacks against refugees in that community dropped.
FISHER: Extended time on social media is addictive, and it changes your behavior, and it changes the way that your mind works. And it does that in a consistent direction towards more outrage, more extreme ideas and a greater hatred of us versus them.
You could wipe every reactionary television station, radio station, magazine, social media, and newspaper off the face of the earth, but capitalism’s internal contradictions would make their resurgence inevitable.
So long as wages are suppressed, social safety nets withered, wealth inequality balloons, education decays, retirement age grows, and healthcare becomes unattainable, the backside into fascism is inevitable.
How do you think fascism took hold in Germany, and how was it mitigated?
Your analysis falls into the same trap as other liberal analysis - that our means of changing our politics is a function of “changing people’s minds” in “the marketplace of ideas”. Liberal analysis champions the notion that “ideas” are what turn the wheels of history. In reality, it was Soviet T34s blasting Nazis into mist that mitigated German fascism - not some completely unachievable and unpragmatic scheme to break into retirement homes across the country and put parental controls on grandpa’s favorite flavor of right wing pundit TV.
Yeah… Like, I agree a lot of the liberal “resistance” is useless but also every time I see a leftist online advocating for revolution, I’m wondering when they’re gonna kick it off.
It ain’t gonna happen until a critical mass of the population has nothing left to lose. As it stands now, revolution sounds great to me, but getting arrested or killed leaves my family impoverished and possibly homeless. Being a cog in the machine is a preferable fate
Civil-War/Rebellions/Revolution’s are massively deadly and don’t frequently resolve in the revolutionaries favor. Sometimes someone worse comes along to fill the vacuum, sometimes the state just gets to justify clamping down harder if it wins.
People who are actively working for change in concrete ways don’t often call attention to themselves by posting about it on public social media. If nobody in power is working to silence you, you’re probably participating in controlled opposition and not much else.
How incredibly convenient. Or paranoid.
Dude… why you gotta call me out like that? I was perfectly content being an online slacktivist, griping about shit I’m not actually going to do anything about and now you’ve ruined it 😠
No, I’m not, because I’m not an American and it isn’t our fucking job to fix the thing the rest of us have been telling you for decades was going to happen.
Are there any organizations taking direct action?
People usually don’t like throwing their lives away for a 1 off act of rebellion.
As individuals, I think the best course of action is to build a movement behind a common goal. Talk to the people around you. Talk to people online. Break up infighting and bring people together on their common grounds. When the movement becomes big enough, then everyone rebels simultaneously. One person rebelling is one life thrown away for no gains and one less person in the movement. Everyone rebelling together is what leads to real change.
Are there any organizations taking direct action?
That’s you. Organize and talk to others. You will eventually find others also organizing towards the same goal. Merge your efforts and you have a larger organization. Rinse and repeat.
The reason so many rich are financing these Neoliberal organizations to take charge is because they will never tell us to perform the necessary action to redistribute their wealth.
So we can organize under the Neoliberals or get fucked…
It’s called controlled opposition
So we can organize under the Neoliberals or get fucked…
It’s not one or the other. You can organize independently of the neoliberals.
And how much of a chance does that give independent grassroots organizations that don’t receive money from billionaires?
You know it’s more difficult to go to two different protest events on the few days, you just don’t support the things that are necessary to enact change because you are a good serf.
how much of a chance
A non-zero chance. If you have a better idea, I’m all ears. The only alternative I’m hearing is to give up, and that guarantees your chances to be zero.
You know it’s more difficult to go to two different protest events on the few days, you just don’t support the things that are necessary to enact change because you are a good serf.
Protesting is just one of many ways of building the movement. A protest tells you that there are others ready to take action. It creates conversation and an opening to talk to the people around you about it. Being at the protests is always good, but it’s not the only way to help a movement.
I’m not sure if I understood what you were saying. Regardless, I think my response makes sense for at least two possible interpretations of it.
There’s usually one or two people actually, but they don’t usually help their cause as much as they’d like to. That guy who missed Trump didn’t help anyone do anything except make trump almost a martyr. I had a friend who told me that he knew Trump would win after that. While I don’t think in absolutes and wasn’t as sure as him (and this was not a maga guy of the rails, this is a calm man who had more to lose than me) he was right that trump did win. Most people who assassinate a president or candidate don’t get the change they want.
They are always mentally ill. Of course they don’t. When you are over that edge it’s clear that there isn’t a whole lot of reality and humanity left in a person. Any murderer that has been analyzed or recovered explicitly mentions overriding critical thought to be able to do those deeds.
You could not even google it – like … how … What did they do to you guys…?
The only real resolution is the one people don’t want to admit to publicly. They can’t even write the words out and publish it. It’s not even a game of chicken. Nobody lives forever. History has seen the correct treatment to what he is in the past. It should be done now as well.
Still wondering, are leftists just going to share memes or is this suggesting we start building bombs? The message I keep getting is that voting alone doesn’t work, that liberals, even liberal protests, don’t work, that peaceful resistance doesn’t work.
So like… Who here is actually thinking of blowing something up or assassinating someone? Are we just talking big while looking around for someone to move first?
Even then, where are the Luigi copycats? If we are so much more effective than liberals, why the hell aren’t we doing anything?
the circles of people organizing and making plans, and the people talking about it in random surveilled spaces form a venn diagram with no overlap. even as the circles of people present here and the people who are fighting in meaningful ways probably do have overlap
Where are these people? I don’t see them here but I just don’t see them anywhere. No buildings have blown up in DC, and the people we see who have attempted an assassination are loose lone wolves with conservative/ non-aligned backgrounds. Yes, even Luigi.
Please, show me evidence of an American black hand.
I have no idea how big or growing they are, but if I did and stated evidence here I would be doing them a massive disservice. Even right wingers don’t talk openly of their plans for violence despite nearly having a free pass in comparison. Are you just trying to get people banned or something?
Or maybe the simpler answer is that they don’t exist.
That’s the catch-22. They’re apparently around, but nobody can talk about it because if they do they’ll ruin their opsec or whatever.
So how do we even know it’s real. Nobody has done anything to indicate that any real resistance exists. They could put up flags or do some kind of public thing that indicates there’s a resistance out there. But nope. Nothing.
And I don’t think people should be blowing up federal buildings (unless they’re empty of federal workers who are 99% just normal people). Not only is that just wrong, but it would do nothing but hurt the cause in the eyes of the rest of the country.
I am the Pope and you can’t prove I am not/s
Eat poo no matter who!
You know that you can strategically vote liberal and do direct action, right?
Well ackshually felons aren’t allowed to vote
A tankie will never do either of those two things
Neither will a lib. They’ll “strategically” vote for some gross fascist and then directly act to have brunch. Same thing as a tankie basically. Just different imperial branding.
You know that you can strategically vote liberal
There would have to be a strategy in voting against your own interests. It’s actively voting for bad things so worse things maybe don’t happen? That’s your strategy?
Correct. At present, the outcomes at the ballot box are “bad” and “worse”. Of the two, “bad” is preferable. “Good” will require non-electoral direct action.
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How many decades of turning up your nose at the lesser evil do you people need before you realize that just makes things worse faster?
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Who is “y’all”? What exactly do you think is “something productive” and what are you doing, besides making things worse through electoral misinformation?
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Lmao.
“We’re the good guys because we’re making things worse more slowly” is one hell of a self report.
Slowing the decline is one aspect of treatment, and the best outcome presently available via electoral action. More significant progress requires alternative methods. Mitigating damage via the electoral vector is more valuable to the efficacy of those alternative methods than whatever it is you’re trying to do by not mitigating damage.
Holy shit, so many words just to cope that you got owned. Yikes.
Name another “aspect of treatment” from within your delirious worldview, if voting for the lesser evil is just one aspect. I dare you to elaborate.
More significant progress requires alternative methods.
Like what?! You’re so close to reality, yet so far away.
If it gets blue MAGA libs to actually start doing something productive instead of whining that they can’t ignore politics anymore, then I’m on team acclerationism.
This wont work, the libs realize you dragged them into the mud (because you guys keep saying that’s your intent) and view you as an enemy that is working to bring about their suffering. That’s exactly why its so common for people to complain about “protest non-voters” in the first place. They already use their middle class resources to simply flee or batten down the hatches & hide, and leave the poor and minorities behind to suffer. Some small portion of them seem to even (in desperation) side with or play nice with fascists to survive.
Non-libs who are also non-accelerationists are mostly just going to grow cynical and bitter. They aren’t going to throw their lives away for a violent revolution they did not sign up for.
Accelerationism is aggressively stupid and it will always fail. You wont get enough people willing to work with you to start a revolution when its obvious you dragged people into hell with you. You can’t create the conditions artificially. You just have a bunch of scared and angry people bickering and when they can afford it, fleeing.
So just to clarify, you’re perfectly fine sacrificing the millions of vulnerable people who will suffer and die under accelerationism, in exchange for the gamble that maybe your ideology might get more popular. And you have the gall to call libs “blue MAGA”?
This isn’t a game, people have already died because of this. Maybe crawl out of your bubble long enough to think about the outcomes of your gambits.
Considering libs, much like MAGA, want everyone who they think is on their side to fall in line and vote/support their chosen genocidal fascist and attack anyone who criticizes them by viewing them as the enemy (whether it be calling them an undercover agent from the other side or working with some foreign nation to make them lose), I don’t see a difference. We saw it last year with everyone that criticized Harris and we’re already seeing it again with anyone that criticizes Newsom. Hell I’ve even seen some of them doing it with criticism towards Jeffries.
Look where that got us. It’s a bad strategy and needs to be retired.
Is it truly a bad strategy? Or is there much less direct action than what’s needed?
It being a bad strategy and also the best available strategy are not mutually exclusive. No presently actionable strategy has a better outcome.
So there’s no strategy that has a better outcome than Trump’s second term? You sure about that?
What? Trump’s second term is largely the result of not strategically voting for lesser evil.
What alternative, actionable strategy would have led to a different outcome? Actionable means “Everyone votes for the same third party” doesn’t count. So go on, what was the alternative strategy that had any chance whatsoever of succeeding?
I think you’re missing the point. The strategy out of the DNC going on two decades has been “our horrible candidate is less horrible than their candidate,” and it took a worldwide pandemic and thousands of deaths for it to work once.
They need to stop and find someone who isn’t horrible if they ever want to win again. That or just let the world burn and hope it’s only the neolibs that survive. I wouldn’t bet on that myself.
