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I mean, obviously ten.
But I at least understand 16.
I deeply worry about the percentage just next to the other three numbers.
13 is probably the next most chosen because it’s closest to 10.
Not including the correct answer is also a form of engagement bait to get additional comments and such saying “wait the real answer is 10, wtf?”
Why worry? You can see them on the right side of the image
It not even remotely possible to make an odd number out of that.
The numbers on the right-hand side are what I’m actually working about.
I was trying yo make a shitty joke conflating you worrying (having concern) with you worrrying (wondering what).
If it helps, I saw what you did there, and I exhaled slightly harder out of my nose while smiling wryly. It’s even better the op didn’t get it. So like, well done and stuff 😊
an odd number out of t
sorry about that, completely wooshed me
Saul Goodman
The other choices are people that wanted to awnser ten but could not because it wasn’t a choice. So they took a random number or the one closest to ten
Why worry about obviously fake bullshit?
Your obviously is only a convention and not everyone agree with that. Not even all peogramming languages or calculators.
If you wanted obviously, it would have to have different order or parentheses or both. Of course everything in math is convention but I mean more obvious.
2+2*4 is obvious with PEDMAS, but hardy obvious to common people
2+(2*4) is more obvious to common people
2*4+2 is even more obvious to people not good with math. I would say this is the preferred form.
(2*4)+2 doesn’t really add more to it, it just emphasises it more, but unnecessarily.
Your obviously is only a convention
Nope. Rules of Maths
it would have to have different order or parentheses or both.
Neither. Multiplication is always before Addition, hence “obviously”
Of course everything in math is convention
Nope. The vast majority of it is proven rules
2+(2*4) is more obvious to common people
Weird then how many people were able to get this right without brackets for centuries before we started using brackets in Maths (which we’ve only had for 300 years)
Tell that obvious to over half the population who get this wrong
Honestly that’s my pet peeve about this category of content. Over the years I’ve seen (at least) hundreds of these check-out-how-bad-at-math-everyone-is posts and it’s nearly always order of operations related. Apparently, a bunch of people forgot (or just never learned) PEMDAS.
Now, having an agreed-upon convention absolutely matters for arriving at expected computational outcomes, but we call it a convention for a reason: it’s not a “correct” vs “incorrect” principle of mathematics. It’s just a rule we agreed upon to allow consistent results.
So any good math educator will be clear on this. If you know the PEMDAS convention already, that’s good, since it’s by far the most common today. But if you don’t yet, don’t worry. It doesn’t mean you’re too dumb to math. With a bit of practice, you won’t even have to remember the acronym.
having an agreed-upon convention absolutely matters for arriving at expected computational outcomes,
Proven rules actually
we call it a convention
No we don’t - the order of operations rules
it’s not a “correct” vs “incorrect” principle of mathematics
The rules most definitely are
It’s just a rule we agreed upon to allow consistent results
proven rules which are true whether you agree to it or not! 😂
any good math educator will be clear on this
Yep
If you know the PEMDAS convention already, that’s good, since it’s by far the most common today
No it isn’t.
But if you don’t yet, don’t worry
As long as you know the rules then that’s all that matters
Dear Mr Rules,
I’m not sure what motivates you to so generously offer your various dyadic tokens of knowledge on this subject without qualification while ignoring my larger point, but will assume in good faith that your thirst for knowledge rivals that of your devotion to The Rules.
First, a question: what are conventions if not agreed upon rules? Second, here is a history of how we actually came to agree upon the aforementioned rules which you may find interesting:
https://www.themathdoctors.org/order-of-operations-historical-caveats/
Happy ruling to you.
knowledge on this subject without qualification
I’m a Maths teacher with a Masters - thanks for asking - how about you?
while ignoring my larger point
You mean your invalid point, that I debunked?
what are conventions if not agreed upon rules?
Conventions are optional, rules aren’t.
here is a history of how we actually came to agree upon the aforementioned rules which you may find interesting
He’s well-known to be wrong about his “history”, and if you read through the comments you’ll find plenty of people telling him that, including references. Cajori wrote the definitive books about the history of Maths (notation). They’re available for free on the Internet Archive - no need to believe some random crank and his blog.
Dear colleague,
By qualification I meant explanation. My doctorate is irrelevant to the truth.
Since you asked, my larger point was about the unhelpful nature of this content, which makes students of math feel inordinately inferior or superior hinged entirely on a single point of familiarity. I don’t handle early math education, but many of my students arrive with baggage from it that hinders their progress, leading me to suspect that early math education sometimes discourages students unnecessarily. In particular, these gotcha-style math memes IMO deepen students’ belief that they’re just bad at math. Hence my dislike of them.
Re: Dave Peterson, I’ll need to read more about this debate regarding the history of notation and I’ll search for the “proven rules” you mentioned (proofs mean something very specific to me and I can’t yet imagine what that looks like WRT order of operations).
If what riled you up was my use of the word “conventions” I can use another, but note that conventions aren’t necessarily “optional” when being understood is essential. Where one places a comma in writing can radically change the meaning of a sentence, for example. My greater point however has nothing to do with that. Here I am only concerned about the next generation of maths student and how viral content like this can discourage them unnecessarily.
Most actual math people never have to think about pemdas here because no one would ever write a problem like this. The trick here is “when was the last time I saw an X to mean multiplication” so I would already be off about it
1 + 1/2 in my brain is clearly 1.5, but 1+1÷2 doesn’t even register in my brain properly.
no one would ever write a problem like this
And yet Maths textbooks do! 😂
when was the last time I saw an X to mean multiplication
In a Maths textbook
1+1÷2 doesn’t even register in my brain properly
You don’t know that the obelus means divide??
And yet Maths textbooks do! 😂
“No one” in this context meant “no one who actually does maths professionally.”
In a Maths textbook
Right, and I have decades of maths experience outside of textbooks. So it’s probably been 20 years since I had a meaningful interaction with the × multiplication symbol.
You don’t know that the obelus means divide??
I clearly know what the symbol means, I demonstrated a use of it. But again, haven’t had a meaningful interaction with the symbol in 20 years, and yet I deal with
/for division daily.When I see
1+½i can instantly say “one and a half”, but when I see1 + 1 ÷ 2i actually have to pause for a moment to think about order of operations. Same with1+2xvs1 + 2 × x… one I recognize the structure of the problem immediately, and one feels foreign.The point is that people who do maths for a living, and are probably above average in maths, tend to write things differently than people who are stopped their maths education in high school (or lower), and these types of memes are designed around making people who know high school maths feel smart. People who actually know maths don’t need memes to justify being better at maths than the rest of the public.
Right, and that clue IMO unravels the more troubling aspect of why this content spreads so quickly:
It’s deliberately aimed at people with a rudimentary math education who can be made to feel far superior to others who, in spite of having roughly the same level of proficiency, are missing/forgetting a single fact that has a disproportionate effect on the result they expect.
That is, it’s blue-dress-level contentious engagement bait for anyone with low math skills, whether or not they remember PEMDAS.
Blue-dress-level?
Old internet thing. Hotly debated at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress
I’ll add the contextual link above for others, since it’s been awhile.
I learned BEDMAS. Doesn’t really change your comment other than effectively “spelling” of a single term
I feel like people should at least remember math at a 4th grade level and be able to get 10. What is the point of making it obvious the universe will never ever arrange itself in such a fashion. The point is if you remember simple rules you applied for a 10-15 years.
common people who are not good at math…
PEMDAS is in the 5th-grade curriculum.
My obviously is gated to people who can hadle 5th-grade math.
I would say we should not provide the mathematically illiterate any say in the matter. They need to spend 10 minutes on Youtube and learn it.
Try RPN for a whole different beast
I am familiar with RPN. At least RPN is always unambiguous
PEMDAS isn’t obvious to “common people”? Why not? It doesn’t seem like an arbitrary convention to me…
If “×” means “groups of,” then “2+2×4” means “two plus two groups of four” which only makes sense, to me, to be read as “two plus two groups of four” rather than “two plus two groups of four”
Sure the order of operations could be arbitrarily different, but I feel like we settled on that order because it simply makes more sense intuitively.
I’m aware of the possibility that it only feels natural and intuitive to me because I was taught that way, but I at least don’t think that applies to this specific example
PEMDAS isn’t obvious to “common people”?
Everyone is taught the rules of Maths
If “×” means “groups of,”
It means repeated addition actually
“2+2×4” means “two plus two groups of four”
No, it means 2+2+2+2+2
Sure the order of operations could be arbitrarily different
No they can’t
I feel like we settled on that order because it simply makes more sense intuitively
It’s because Multiplication is defined as repeated addition, so if you don’t do it before addition you get wrong answers
PEMDAS isn’t obvious to “common people”? Why not?
Clearly not if most of these answers are incorrect. If it was obvious, there wouldn’t be as many answers as there are.
It didn’t occur to me that the poll may function that way. Does it? I thought this was engagement bait in which the poll’s author lists only wrong answers as options
There’s just 5 lots of 2. If it’s hard then think of x being just a bunch of + smooshed together. So
2 + 2 x 4
expands to
2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2
or contracts to
5 x 2
You’ve completely not understood that order of operations is an arbitrary convention. How did you decide to expand the definition of multiplication before evaluating the addition? Convention.
You can’t write 2 + 2 ÷ 2 like this, so how are you gonna decide whether to decide to divide or add first?
You’ve completely not understood that order of operations is an arbitrary convention
No, you’ve completely not understood that they are universal rules of Maths
How did you decide to expand the definition of multiplication before evaluating the addition? Convention
The definition of Multiplication as being repeated addition
You can’t write 2 + 2 ÷ 2 like this
Yes you can
so how are you gonna decide whether to decide to divide or add first?
The rules of Maths, which says Division must be before Addition
How are you gonna write 2 + 2 ÷ 2 with repeated addition?
The definition of Multiplication as being repeated addition
That doesn’t mean it has to be expanded first. You could expand 2 + 2 × 3 as (2+2)+(2+2)+(2+2) and you are unable to tell me what mathematical law prohibits it.
If this were a universal law, reverse polish notation wouldn’t work as it does. In RPL, 2 2 + 3 × is 12 but 2 3 × 2 + is 8. If you had to expand multiplication first, how would it work? The same can be done with prefix notation, and the same can be done with “pre-school” order of operations.
Different programming languages have different orders of operations, and those languages work just fine.
Your argument amounts to saying that it makes the most sense to do multiplication before addition. Which is true, but that only gives you a convention, not a rule.
A multiple choice question where all the answers are wrong, says nothing about math or the mathematical understanding of the general population.
This is engagementbait and its hooked you too.
No u
im had
No, you’re Hildegarde
no u
ur trans now not sorry
That’s normal for multiple choice, and sometimes all the answers are correct. You’re supposed to pick the most correct based on the viewpoint of the course.
We can assume it’s 16 because the audience weren’t taught order of operations. (2+2)*4
That’s normal for multiple choice
No it isn’t.
sometimes all the answers are correct
Not in multiple choice they aren’t. At best you might have “D) All of the above” if there’s genuinely more than 1 answer
We can assume
Someone screwed up somewhere, and there will be lots of complaints from students. Despite it being “you only had 1 job”, proofreaders still miss things sometimes…
All I can assume from you is that you never did multiple choice questions in University.
There’s a reason essay questions are considered easier.
All I can assume from you is that you never did multiple choice questions in University
That would be a wrong assumption.
There’s a reason essay questions are considered easier.
They’re not! 😂
Was this multiple choice? Because if 10 isn’t an option, people are just going to answer whatever.
It was engagement bait. It’s always engagement bait.
It’s not a bad analogy for american democracy. None of the options are correct, so you either pick the wrong answer that makes some amount of sense or write in the correct answer and be completely ignored in the tally of results.
This is why I write it as 2+(2x4). The parentheses aren’t techniclly necessary, but they do make it clearer to people who haven’t been in a school for 35 years.
just get rid of the x. 2+(24) = 26
Why write more than necessary? Surely 26 = 26 is enough.
because i like getting rid of the x. it reminds me of her. like flushing.
2+8x
This isn’t even math, just convention on rules for order of operations.
The one response you got was just like, “But there’s just ONE rule.” totally missing your point.
Order of operations only has one rule: Bedmas (or pemdas if you’re not from north america)
Huh it was always pemdas in both highschool and college in new England for me… they were also always parentheses. ‘Brackets’ only reffered to ‘[ ]’ which were reserved for matrices or number sets, eg 2*[2,5,8]+2= [6,12,18]
I think canadians call ( ) brackets in math
If you look at the arguments on math forums, you’ll see that there isn’t just one rule.
It is a convention, and different places teach different conventions.
Namely, some places say thatPEDMASis a very strict order. Other places say that it isPE D|M A|S, where D and M are the same level and order is left-to-right, and same with addition vs subtraction.
And others, even in this post, say it’sPEMDAS, which I have heard before.“Correct” and “incorrect” don’t apply to conventions, it’s simply a matter of if the people talking agree on the convention to use. And there are clearly at least three that highly educated people use and can’t agree on.
different places teach different conventions
But they all teach the same rules
some places say that PEDMAS is a very strict order
Which is totally fine and works
Other places say that it is PE D|M A|S,
Which is also totally fine and works
even in this post, say it’s PEMDAS
Also totally fine and works
it’s simply a matter of if the people talking agree on the convention to use
No-one has to agree on any convention - they can use whatever they want and as long as they obey the rules it will work
can’t agree on
Educated people agree that which convention you use doesn’t matter.
That’s not true Here is an example:
8÷2x4
PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1
PEDMAS: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
PE M|D A|S: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
And thats not even getting into juxtaposition operations, where fields like physics use conventions that differ from most other field.but you’re missing the point. It could be SAMDEP and math would still work, you’d just rearrange the equation. Just like with prefix or postfix notation. The rules don’t change, just the notation conventions change. But you need to agree on the notation conventions to reach the same answer.
That’s not true
Yes it is
PEDMAS: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
Yep.
PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1
Nope. PEMDAS: 8x4÷2 = 32÷2 = 16. What you actually did is 8÷(2x4), in which you changed the sign in front of the 4 - 8÷(2x4)= 8÷2÷4 - hence your wrong answer
PE M|D A|S: 8÷2x4 = 4x4 = 16
Yep, same answer regardless of the order 🙄
And thats not even getting into juxtaposition operations,
Which I have no doubt you don’t understand how to do those either, given you don’t know how to even do Multiplication first in this example.
where fields like physics use conventions that differ from most other field
Nope! The obey all the rules of Maths. They would get wrong answers if they didn’t
you’re missing the point
No, you are…
It could be SAMDEP and math would still work
No it can’t because no it wouldn’t 😂
you’d just rearrange the equation.
Says someone who didn’t rearrange “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” and got the wrong answer 😂
The rules don’t change
Hence why “PEMDAS: 8÷2x4 = 8÷8 = 1” was wrong. You violated the rule of Left Associativity
Ok, then explain prefix and postfix, where these conventions don’t apply. How can these be rules of math when they didn’t universally apply?
Says someone who didn’t rearrange "PEMDAS
The order of operations tells us how to interpret an equation without rearranging it. When you pick a different convention, you need to rearrange it to get the same answer. What you did was rearrange the equation, which you can only do if you are already following a specific convention.
No it can’t because no it wouldn’t 😂
All conventions can produce the correct answer, when appropriately arranged for that convention, because the conventions are not laws of mathematics, they are conventions.
Nope! The obey all the rules of Maths. They would get wrong answers if they didn’t
They obey the laws of math. Conventions aren’t laws of math, they’re conventions. And a quick Google search will tell you that not everyone puts juxtaposition at a higher precedent than multiplication; it’s a convention. As long as people are using the same convention, they’ll agree on an answer and that answer is correct.
You can be mean all you like, that doesn’t change the nature of conventions
The annoying prevalence of this meme suggests to me that an alarming number of people lack even a middle-school understanding of basic arithmetic.
Wait until you hear what the average reading level is.
It’s not arithmetic at all, it’s just about convention aka how to communicate math. The author didn’t make themselves clear enough so people misunderstand what calculation they mean.
it’s just about convention aka how to communicate math
They’re rules actually.
The author didn’t make themselves clear enough
Yes they did, someone screwed up the answers, just like in this book…
misunderstand what calculation they mean
There’s only 1 possible answer to it.
In mathematics and computer programming, the order of operations is a collection of conventions about which arithmetic operations to perform first in order to evaluate a given mathematical expression.
The order of operations is part of arithmetic. Although, the memes about it are certainly not good mathematics communication.
There’s a useful distinction to be made. The order of operations is different between conventional written maths, calculators, reverse polish notation, python, etc. In contrast there is no disagreement over what the result of any individual binary operations is
The order of operations is different between conventional written maths, calculators, reverse polish notation, python, etc.
The notation might be different, but the rules are universal
The rules are about how you interpret the notation, so that makes no sense.
The rules are about how you interpret the notation
No, the notation definitions are about how to interpret the notation. The rules are about how to do the Maths.
So if you have one “notation definition” as you call it which says that 2+2*3 means ”first add two to two, then multiply by three" and another which says “first multiply two by three, then add it to two”, why on earth do the “rules” have anything further to say about order of operations?
Let’s just agree to disagree, then. /s
That 10 guy is totally biased.
We should hear from both sides.
I say we vote on it. Oh, wait. /s
I love this so much because on the ballot, the right answer is also often missing
I know this is a PEMDAS joke, one of many for the PEMDAS throne.
But yeah, we need to really, really worry about the coming day when “math becomes a democracy” and that is already happening for a wide array of other facts and knowledge about the world.
Whatever “civility politics” liberals infested our collective minds with have to be abandoned. We have to get a lot harder and a lot less tolerant of other people’s “beliefs” even if you think “Well they’re only harming themselves by thinking 1x1=4” but they’re not, we need to start viewing these people as threats to our future. We no longer live in isolation, whatever bullshit your parents drove into you about “nothing on the internet being real and shouldn’t matter” was utter hogwash and even less relevant in 2025/2026. We get everything from the internet, including a sense of community and connection, which is why nutsoids find each other and turn something like a joke about earth being flat into an entire anti-science movement.
If you’ve ever seen those dumb sci-fi shows or movies where science if forbidden and people caught learning science are punished, and thought “that’s so unrealistic” well I have some real bad news for you.
But if enough people are doing it wrong, that means it’s common usage, and therefore it’s right!
-The English Language
Which is perfectly fine for languages:)
Yeah. It’s definitely “the liberals” responsible for poor math skills.
SADMEP
Okay, buddy elementary school
Is that a good elementary school?
It’s okay, buddy
Solve for x
Here you go. By the commutative property of multiplication:
2 + 2x4 = 2 + 24x
Rearranging this leads to:
x = -1/12
which means that x is the limit of the diverging series:
x = 1 + 2 + 3 + …
Wouldnt 2x4 actually equate to 2 * 4 * x not 24 * x? So it would be 8x?
Regular multiplication? Sure. But this is Rustydrd multiplication, which assigns different values to products I don’t like.
x=4/7
Should really allow people to answer how they want.
Who’s Big Math in charge of the multiple choice?
Who’s denying a voice to those who want to answer that question with “10”? [Edit: or “F”? ~ or an essay on being “off by 1”]
In america, math IS a democracy, and this is why we are losing our democracy.
So that’s where the slogan “stop the count” comes from
