Just make it happen already!
Thats a thing you cant decide right for all of europe.
It doesnt matter what you choose, some people and countrys will be mad, and other glad.
Just do it already
Even within countries, people disagree. People have different needs.
Years ago, the EU parliament decided to abandon DST - with a vast majority. They sent it to the governments as “Homework” to determine whether to keep Summer- or Standard Time. Nothing came out of it.
They were asking for feedback and I sure wrote a bunch and sent an email or wtv it was supporting the idea of killing it please for yesterday.
They should obviously keep standard time. No one wants light at 10pm!!!
I stand corrected. People seem to love evening sunlight
I live in Spain, having light at 11 pm is pretty cool.
No one wants light at 10pm!!!
I do
You live in the western end of your time zone, and at a pretty high latitude. That’s the only way to get sunset after 10pm. Your summer sunrise must be about 3am. And you must only see about 5 hours of daylight during winter.
If you are experiencing sunset 2 hours before midnight, the eastern end of your time zone is experiencing sunrise two hours after midnight. Nobody wants sunrise at 2am.
I would say that you should not be in your time zone. Your region should be in the next time zone to the west. Their DST schedule is your standard time schedule.
Alternatively, there is nothing stopping the eastern end of your time zone from joining the next zone to the east, so that their year-round clocks make more sense for them.
Any viable plan to lock the clocks is going to have to include provisions for our regions to select the time zone we want to use.
They don’t have to be far west for sunset at 22 (with DST as I think you missed), just far enough north. With 6 hours of night in the summer, the centre of the timezone will have nighttime from 22 to 4.
Remember to default to “they” and not “he” for people with unknown pronouns and unknown gender
My bad, fixed. Thanks for keeping me vigilant.
“far enough north” for this effect is above 59° latitude, and doesn’t include places like Iceland that don’t observe DST. The population density above 59° is a rounding error above zero.
The only place to reach it in the southern hemisphere is Antarctica itself and a few islands.
Their votes and opinions certainly count, but the rest of the world should not be forced to use a bad time system just to appease the very few who live that high. Especially when they have other alternatives available to resolve their problem.
The overwhelming majority of people who experience this effect of DST are on the west end of their current time zones at a much lower latitude.
Stockholm, Helsinki, St. Petersburg would like a word…
“far enough north” for this effect is above 59° latitude
What are you on about? I’m at 52º North and from May 20th until the 25th of July there is no night at all. Best we get is about 3 hours of astronomical twilight.
What you have to realise is that according to them, half of Europe is a rounding error when it comes to discussing Europe specific problems.
DST is hardly specific to Europe.
I would 100% rather light at 10pm than 4am where it’s totally wasted.
Current light breakdown in Ireland over the year:
nah, I want to see the stars without having to stay up late, and light until 10pm would mess with my body’s schedule
Idk what you want since you’re only getting about 4 hours of night in the summer. You gotta just waste some daylight when you live that far north
I always forget how far north a lot of Europe is. The fact Dublin is further north than most Canadian major cities throws me for a loop
Yeah it’s one of those weird map oddities that’s more noticeable on a globe.
We are mega fucked here if the gulf of Mexico ever stops sending us that warm water goodness.
Literally the plot of “The Day after Tomorrow” although the movie is ridiculously over the top of course
The movie takes a real mechanism, a plausible concern, then cranks the intensity of the issue to eleven and uses that exaggerated catastrophe as foundation for its setting. It’s absurd in magnitude, but not in premise.
You mean the Gulf of America? /s
Gulf of release the Epstein files
It’s actually the Atlantic Ocean arm of the Oceanic Conveyor Belt bringing to Europe warm waters from Africa.
The only relation with the Gulf Of Mexico is that the western side of that current (which goes in the opposite direction, so North -> South, along the Eastern Northern and Southern America) passes alongside it.
DST basically robs you of useful outdoors time in summer. Want to spend some time outside after work? You can’t because of the scorching hot sun. Thanks to DST it’s time for bed by the time it has cooled down enough to be outside. Of course by then it’s still too hot to sleep so you’re fucked anyway. By the time it has cooled down enough to sleep it’s almost time to get up again.
If we want to move the clock then we should move it backwards in summer instead of forwards. That way we get more time in the evening where it’s nice to be outdoors, we get to sleep when it has cooled down a bit more. In the morning the sun would be up earlier but blackout curtains solve that issue, and temperature lags behind the sun anyway so we get to sleep in the least hot part of the night.
DST is the worst invention ever.
It is a bit more complicated. Back in the time (no pun intended) they made a mess by putting most of Europe in one time zone, from west of Spain to east of Poland. Which is 9° west to 28° east, more than 2 and a half time zones. Technically, Europe should split into at least two time zones. And this is going to be a mess.
Light at 10pm isn’t useful, but neither is light at 4am
Dawn at 5:30 or later would be best
The EU parliament didn’t vote to abandon DST, they voted for letting countries decide if they want to do DST or if they want to stick to one time zone. Apparently most countries decided to stick with DST.
I will never understand the push to kill daylight savings. And of course it would be Spain that’s pushing for this a country where they’re not really affected by it, but they want to take it away for the entirety of Europe. There have been pretty conclusive studies that indicate that you should wake with the rise of the sun. Unfortunately our lives don’t work like that, you get up at 7:00 a.m. whatever the sun is doing, so I would prefer it if we kept 7:00 a.m. to be about the time the sun comes up. Why is that a controversial take?
It has measurable negative effects on health.
Not everyone gets up at 7 am? Probably not even the majority. At least over here elementary starts at 7:30 and most people have their kids in daycare by that time as well. Moreover, time zones are big - so what might be a sunrise at 7 for you might be, depending on the relative location, a sunrise at 7:30 (or 6:30).
This is also why this is so immensely complicated. For some EU countries winter time would be better, for others, summer time. While they are in the same time zone. If you let every country choose what time they will pick or whether or not they will keep daylight saving you’ll get a patchwork of relatively small countries all operating at different times. Imagine living in Luxemburg, it’s 5 pm, in Belgium it is 5, in France 4, in Germany 6, in the Netherlands 4 again, then Spain hits you with 6 and Austria salutes you at 5. Have fun with that.
I don’t see why some people are so hung-up on this. We have much much bigger fish to fry.
It’s a good thing most things aren’t a single track queue then. Are democratic governments slow? Yes. Do they handle 1000’s of things in parallel? Also, yes.
Believe it or not, but not everything is a psyop to distract from the Epstein files.
Let’s keep summer time, It’s already dark before 18, once we’ll switch to winter time it’ll be dark before 17. The benefit is that instead of going to work and starting to work when it’s dark ,we’ll go to work when it’s dark and start to work at dawn. Not worth-it
No one stops you from getting up 1h earlier in the morning.
Permanent summer time would force everyone to do it.You got down voted but no-one actually counters that argument.
Why should everyone be forced to get up earlier because some of the population want to? They can already do that!
And to people who say “mORe LiGhT iN tHe evEnINgS” - for most of us in Europe it’ll only buy you a few weeks at most and then it’ll be dark by the time you finish work/school anyway.
Most people don’t have much control over their working hours.
Which is exactly my point. Summer time forces me to get up 1h earlier than normal because I can’t choose to come to work an hour late.
But with normal time, you can always choose to live on “summer time” for yourself by getting up an hour early.
And to add to that: It would make the winter mornings so, so much darker.
I don’t think many people consider how that would affect them.
Because shifting schedules by an hour randomly in the middle of the year twice is physically damaging and bad for your health, that impacts you. And maybe it’s not so bad for you, you work shifting hours, no biggie. Try to imagine that you had that regular schedule and suddenly it changed, it did bother you, perhaps make decisions based on that.
If you can’t imagine anyone else having thoughts, feelings, or emotions different from yours, consider that when you’re crossing the street the day after daylight savings time, you’re being passed by people who didn’t get enough sleep and maybe they’re like you, but they might not be, and that could directly impact you too.
It’s such a simple small change to a weird tradition that has no more purpose in our modern world than the “moonlight lamps” of the US or the penny farthing. They may be historically important or interesting, but that doesn’t mean you should be forced to use them. Change can be scary but it’s gonna be ok, daylight savings time will inevitably end up the way of the funny big wheeled bike, it’s just a matter of when and how. You can always choose to wake up early all year round.
I feel like you’re agreeing with me but your comment is phrased like you’re disagreeing
Just get up like it would be summertime.
Standard time is objectively better for health. Brighter mornings is so much more important
Fuck bright mornings, I want some daylight to do shit outside after coming home from work.
Bring a flashlight and enjoy your health
Oh yes that splendid health of mine that’s greatly prospering from watching the nice daylight being wasted while I’m sitting at fucking work, where it doesn’t matter whether it’s daylight outside or not, very well knowing that it’s dark outside when I leave home to get there, as it will be only just dark outside when I get back for 4 months a fucking year, because a bunch of patronising arseholes are fiddling with the clock twice a year.
I could tell you where to shove that Flashlight of yours in order to enjoy it in a healthy way, but I don’t want to be as patronising as you and feel that if you’re so knowledgeable about health, you’ll figure that out all by yourself.
These people will happily give you scientific methods for enjoying it
There’s a large population where this has no meaning. The sun rises at 10 AM and sets at 1 PM in the winter here where I live. There’s nothing to gain for us, only problems and missed meetings and school mornings and extra stress on kids and parents having to adjust their sleeping routines days in advance. It sucks ass, absolutely not worth it even if we did live in the very specific latitudes where this is perfect. Down with daylight savings! ✊
Are you a polar bear? How can you survive with 3h of sunlight a day?
Imagine getting 3 hours of sunlight a day in winter. Where I live north of the Arctic circle we get none for many weeks every winter!
I feel your username is a clue about survival lol.
You must be new to Lemmy, 3h of sunlight is way more than most of us basement dwellers get.
Vitamin D.
Also we get like 21h of sunlight during the summer so that’s pretty neat.
I’m not sure neat is the word I’d use to describe that hellish landscape, but might be a language issue… :)
Which hellish landscape are you talking about? Remember you could be talking about someone’s home. 😜
That’s all very well for Spain who are fairly close to the equator, but us northerners would like to see some daylight in winter.
In the morning or afternoon? I find living in Montreal is getting more difficult as I get older, the short summers, the brutally long and dark winter is getting to me. It’s not so much the dark but that winter is a wet soggy season now.
I would like for it to be lighter in the afternoons. It’s brutal getting home in the pitch dark.
I think the biggest problem with Montreal is that it’s so fucking dirty in the winter, makes maintenance of vehicles a chore. If the city just embraced snow and let it get packed and rough, everyone would have an easier time with their winter and studded tires. Instead of having to wade through salt and the crushed rock that they put everywhere. And in the spring we wouldn’t be breathing dust.
That said, I think summer is fairly long here. Mid May all the way to end of September. It’s the spring that’s missing here, since you can get snowstorms in April still. In contrast in most of continental Europe, there’s a peak of cold around end of January / February, and then that’s it. March is already the wet but bearable, with lots of blooming “snow flowers”.
Summer is 6 weeks, tops. The days get short real quick, August is already cool in the evening.
I don’t think you appreciate how much snow we can get.
I’m probably your neighbour, you Need.
Then use a time zone that makes sense for that?
Since nobody can agree on which time to keep I doubt it’ll lead to anything. By now I’ve kinda gotten used to it anyway.
I remember that at some point in the 90s or 2000s you could buy watches with beats time. A day was divided in 1000 beats and there where no timezones. So 300 beats could be breakfast for me and bedtime for you.
I think I would actually really like a global system like that.
That doesn’t really solve the problem, it’s just relabeling the existing system. The bigger issue is that over the course of a year we don’t change when we do things.
You’re expected to arrive at work at a particular time, at no point did they ever say oh it’s still dark at 7am feel free to come in an hour later. No business would ever do that, so they have to change the clocks so that 7:00 a.m. now happens later.
The whole decimalization and universal time thing would require businesses to make that accommodation. Which is not going to happen.
With a system like .beat (or internet time as it was also called), there are no timezones and there is no daylight savings time.
If we would use a system like that, I’m pretty sure stores in Barcelona would open at a different time than stores in Amsterdam, because the sunrise at different moments. Now we have the same timezone, because it works wel for trade, not because its the best local time.
Using the exact same time globally could fix that. We use the same time for meetings with people abroad but choose the time that fits when the sun rises
Meet in the middle, and be done with it. Instead of going back an hour this weekend. Go back a half hour, and just leave it there forever.
Tell that to the people who lose an hours’ worth of pay every year to the companies that happily adjust their timecards in the fall and then all too conveniently forget to fix them in the spring.
Nobody agrees on which one is better but I’d say a majority agrees that sticking to one is better
That’s like saying we can’t agree if we want burgers or steak so let’s all have nothing instead
That’s exactly what it’s like, which is why I suspect you’ll all be enjoying a nice big slab of nothing.
It’s about time.
No. It’s one hour too early.
Not a minute too late!
Yes, please, do it already!
Pick real time and let people adjust their schedules. It’s easier and the science backs it up.
Pick real time
And have to put up with Bill Maher? No thanks.
Solar time.
I suggest we start using a new metric:
It’s been x amount of seconds since the USA empire fell.
YESSSSSS
So it’s the year 65 right now?
So it’s the year 65 right now?
So you’re saying that the USA fell when Black people got Civil Rights? 🤔
Sus 👀
YES FINALLY!
Funny coincidence that they started doing that after i commited myself to life in winter time for ever. Wake up at 5 summer time and 6 winter time
“To kill me you must get up earlier, Spain!”
At the mere mention of changing the summer time, you get all bar and restaurant people shouting to not touch it.
But actually we’re in the wrong time zone too, so summer time is actually just having office hours from 07:00 to 15:00 solar time but with more lying.
