I have a couple friends like this. Live with their moms, over 25, never had a job or anything. Only plays games. I feel so bad for them because they don’t think they are smart but they definitely are, they just dont spend their time wisely.
Im not judging. That life sounds great when youre young. But I dont want them to wake up at 35 and be even more depressed because they’ve never done anything in life.
It would be well and good if they were happy like this but they definitely aren’t. Im just not sure how someone like that could even integrate into society. I give them advice here and there and sometimes talk about jobs with them, but they are also self proclaimed “lazy” and never really branch out to try new things. I try to send them links to code camps and stuff like that i think they’ll enjoy, but they dont do it. I’ve offered to hang out with them when im their town (we’ve been friends for years and know each other very well so this isnt weird) but they cant drive either which makes ir hard.
I already know most replies wil be “ITS FINE TO HAVE A BORING LIFE LEAVE THEM ALONE AND STOP TRYING TO “SAVE” THEM” but a boring life is different than a healthy life, imo.
Edit: i knew there’d be a lot of misinterpretation and people self reflecting on their own lives as a result of this post. Regardless, I am glad for the discussion. Thank you to those of you who had constructive comments instead of outright attacks.
Don’t feel bad for them. Stop judging them while believing otherwise. Mind your own business and stop meddling. Consider that you might be engaging in ableism. Be their friend (if they are also friends to you) and enjoy your life with them when the opportunities present themselves. Don’t see anything you do as “enabling them” - it’s not your job to give them tough love or to intervene in any way, unless they are asking you specifically for help. In that case, it’s reasonable to set conditions or limits to the help you may choose to give them.
Not everybody is worried about achieving things in life or living in ways you approve of, their regret isn’t guaranteed, and there are always ways for them to start anew and to live with dignity e.g. like the people showcased on the CheapRVLiving YT channel.
Society isn’t healthy, so it may be wise to direct your energy towards improving it and encouraging others to do the same. Their level of integration into our incredibly unhealthy society is not a measure of their personal health.
That cheapRVliving channel saved me when I had to move and get away from abuse. Lived in my car for several months. Life is so much better now.
The road to hell is paved with good intention.
/thread
Dismantle capitalism so they are free to return to Real Life and stop ignoring reality.
Best answer
Get them a girlfriend.
Yikes
Tell their food providers if they don’t do something now, they’ll end up like my 70 year old parents. They just shelled out $16,000 for dental care because my brother who barely graduated high school, has never held a job, and never left the house, has no insurance of any kind. When they die, he’ll probably starve to death because I’m not stepping in to help that racist, misogynist, homophobic prick live.
You can lead the horses to water but you can’t make them drink. Keep offering to hang out, maybe if you’re having a deep conversation ask if this is how they want the rest of their lives to go and if they have ever looked into mental health help (this absolutely may be them struggling to do things and not letting themselves think about that fact). But at the end of the day you can’t improve things for them, you can only offer whatever help you can offer, help if they ask for it, and provide a good alternative.
Also, encourage them to take regular walks. It’s a really good first step to stopping being a shut in. It involves changing scenery, exercise, and places you around other people. Biking or running would be a next step if they’re interested, they can serve as a hobby and cardio and biking can also be a form of transportation around town as well as providing an opportunity to get involved in social rides. Things like that drastically impact mental health
This is a pretty nuanced problem, in my opinion. Here are my thoughts:
- You’re definitely judging them
- I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong to judge them, but it would have to be for different reasons than you state. I would judge them for being personally incompatible with the fundamental tenets of society (ie that you contribute to it and act as a good citizen)
- You can’t change the mind of someone who isn’t open to change. One of the things you’ll need to accept is that most people are only willing to learn from their own mistakes, and a good portion of those aren’t even willing to learn from their own mistakes consistently. You will need to wait until they regret their decisions before change can even be possible. And even then be aware that there’s a solid chance that they’ll still keep doing whatever they’ve been doing
- It’s good that you’re thinking about this, but on the other hand, it’s not your responsibility to ensure that your friends have good lives. Your responsibility is to yourself, and if you act as though you have responsibility over other people, you come off as nosy, pushy, bossy. Be careful that you don’t confuse advising someone with assuming responsibility over that person.
hire them.
you have a job you can offer right?
Guessing this is sarcasm, but I have in fact sent them open listings from the company I’m with and encouraged them. So, yeah.
“Im not judging”, proceeds to judge.
These days 25 isn’t that old to be living at home given extortionate rent and lack of decent job prospects. So if they had a soul-crushing job they would be “healthy” in your eyes?
Why are you so optimistic/pushy about them becoming wage slaves?
Why are you so optimistic/pushy about them becoming wage slaves?
Because that’s one way to move towards independence. Independence not just from the parents, but from having a soul-crushing job.
It’d be hard for a 30-year old with no education or job experience to get a job or start a business. Or save up money for anything.
Ok but if they are smart like OP claims they will surely already know they’re unlikely to have money if they don’t get a job at some point. If OP keeps bringing that up it’s pretty condescending.
I never bring this up to them, that would be assholish in my opinion.
Hate to break it to you but sending them job openings and code camps counts as bringing this up.
I just sent them as something to look at. I’ve never said “you need to look at this, you jobless loser!!” Its always been oh ya here’s openings at my company (because they asked what people there do) and they expressed some interest in coding but like me have never been able to stick with it so ive sent code camps I was trying out to see if they wanted to do it together. Etc.
Or they’re counting on mom and dad’s money until the parents pass away. Could be in denial about how much time they have and how easy it would be to get a job when that time comes.
Thats also why its worrying. They dont have a cent.
Now I dont doubt they could really get a job pretty easily if they wanted. They just have no reason to
If they find a way to make money without needing to build up the discipline through a job etc., then that’s great. People can do that over the internet on low-cost areas or with some familial support.
Not everyone can.
Yes, there’s enough resources in the world to go around where people shouldn’t have to work, let alone 40h a week.
But currently, that’s impossible in every country that I’m familiar with.
I never said they had to get any sort of job. But they dont do anything (bike, running, volunteer, board game groups. Literally anything)
I just brought up the job thing because its easy.
Also. No being can live without doing some work, and i dont believe its healthy to do so. Even creating art can be “work” (at least for me it is).
They play games and socialise online. Why would a board game group be any better than that? In terms of exercise, that’s their prerogative, I’m sure they will at some point when health issues start arising but why are you so bothered if they don’t?
I could personally live quite happily without doing work. When animals are fed and watered do the get back to grafting? No, they socialise, lounge about or play. Stop trying to push your definitions of “living” on others.
You dont think much about who provides you the food, clothing, electricity, housing to live comfortably. People seem to forget about those who are working in the sewers and keeping your plumbing running, and that the world would be totally fine if no-one did any work at all.
Now, do we need to sit in cubicles 45 hours a week, likely not. But there is still work that has to be done to survive and thrive.
I think about that all the time personally and think those sort of jobs should be the highest paying.
But getting an average 40 hour per week office job is not helping those sorts of things whatsoever, it will just be increasing profit for shareholders.
They play games and socialise online. Why would a board game group be any better than that?
In-person interactions are quantifiably different than online interactions, and it’s helpful to have those skills in one’s repertoire.
In terms of exercise, that’s their prerogative, I’m sure they will at some point when health issues start arising but why are you so bothered if they don’t?
Because OP cares about their friends and wants them to get ahead of things rather than waiting until it’s too late to start paying attention to their health.
The best way to treat an unhealthy heart is to not let it get unhealthy in the first place, for instance.
Ok fair enough, for social interactions, board games would probably be better than video games but perhaps they are more introverted than OP.
I’m sure OP has good intentions but as others have said you can’t push your vision of healthy living on others, they have to come to that conclusion themselves. Apparantly these friends are smart so likely know the health effects of a sedentry lifestyle and that’s their choice.
The tone of writing is quite condescending pretending those of us that have jobs or other hobbies live in some kind of work-happy socially integrated utopia.
Being smart doesn’t mean they know everything. They would probably get it if they read up on it, but not every gamer reads up on the health effects of a sedentary lifestyle, etc.
I get that people have different hobbies. My primary hobby is gaming. I’m introverted. I enjoy working remotely. I like my job, but I’d still quit if a passion project could support my life.
If I were stagnating by spending all of my time with hobbies and not improving myself or my future, I’d hope that someone would help snap me out of it.
25 and living at home isnt that much different to most…but OP says that they havent had a job, so Id like more detail. What have they done with their lives up until this point?
Played computer games. Sadly thats it. Thats why I feel bad for them.
“What have they done with their lives up until this point?”
Sounds like they’ve lived a nice if somewhat sheltered life close to their family playing games. Maybe at some point they might get bored of that or want more money and venture out into the world but that’s not up to you or OP to decide/judge, it’s their life.
Im not judging, thats why Id like more info. If these people are happy with their situation, leave them to it, some people are happy with in their comfort zone.
If theyre unhappy, thats a totally different matter. For instance do they want something better but lack the confidence, skills, or connections?
What if they are unhappy and working would make them unhappier?
Thats what Im asking for when I say id like more information…like why are they unhappy?
With that said, i dont want OP to answer me, Im just looking to answer his question.
Also, I think we are all unhappy in this capitalist shithole, the working class at any rate.
The majority of people live with their parents until around 30 years old these days.
I think it’s going to be hard for you to get your friends to care about these kind of things.
And never have a job?
You joke, but the avg American is underpaid or underemployed and is living paycheck to paycheck.
So yeah, it’s how a lot of people are forced to live
I am not joking.
They have never had a job. They are not underpaid, they are not unable to get a job, they are losers…
I have little sympathy for people who are obsessed with making others work for the sake of it.
We should have had a 4 day work week, 4hr work day, in the 50s and 60s if labor union’s weren’t attacked by our government.
If the system wants workers, then that requires real incentives to make people want to do that
And I’m happy for the people who would otherwise be forced into slavery to stave off starvation and homelessness, who found a different way to survive.
BWAHAHAHa
Give me a break. These guys aren’’t living an alternate lifestyle.
They are fuck ups. They are mooches who are in desperate need of a kick in the ass, and ever day that kick in the ass is delayed means the kick will be even harder and their ability to handle it will decline.
I have known heaps of dudes like this and they aren’t victims.
I have no sympathy for people who don’t handle their own shit.
There are less jobs in the United States than there are working age people who can work.
So IDK what you want. If you think they should have a job how about you give them one?
The vast majority of people will need a UBI in the near future to prevent total economic collapse, and you aren’t superior to the people who found an easier way than you to survive this economy.
Work sucks. If you don’t have to, don’t.
I’m typing this on my work break 45 past midnight. Despite frugal living I’m behind on my power bill.
If you really want to help them expand, offer to take them to a music festival and line up some psychedelics. I’ve seen it help many online introverts break past mental barriers.
Offering to hang out once in a while is nice. Without going into fancy considerations, it’s nice
Do be careful when suggesting specific activities, it can feel like you’re telling them what to be (and cause reactance). If you had parents doing it to you, you know the issue
I don’t think the “judging” part matters. They are likely to be unhappy at some point in the future, and if you happen to be proposing something different at that time, they might be more interested. This doesn’t need to be about judgement or respect, having a way into another life should always be desirable (as long as you’re not being an asshole)
note that I am basing this on how I believe I would feel if I was them, and do not have any experience as your “role” here
If you grab the tail of a dog and wave it to and fro, it is not likely that this will make the dog happy, even if it looks a little bit that way to an outside observer.
Likewise, trying to make a terminally online person* do what you think is normal (or even necessary) will not make them act or feel like you do, even if they’re willing to go along with it for a while.
To use another animal metaphor, they’ll come out of their shell when they’re ready, but they may never be ready, and other people have to be OK with that.
* Of course, by “terminally online person” we should substitute whatever actual psychological diagnoses are responsible for the person acting the way they do, not what they do, assuming such diagnoses are even possible (or valid).
My honest question for you is what you think it means to be doing something meaningful?
Frankly, the world these days are filled with suits working jobs they either hate or you’re a dude working a job you like that pays you nothing. We’re not really in a place to help people with platitudes about “making a meaningful life” when there’s no meaning to be had.
But perhaps it’s the absurdist in me who feels this way. For the record, I have an OK programming job, and could probably make more money had I decided to not go into games fwiw.
Its more about improving their life than making life meaningful. I mean to most people, working a 40hr office job is preferable to being on the street.
Im one of the very lucky few that have an awesome job with great bosses and Co workers who are actually doing somewhat important work, or at least work we dont hate.
I think that’s really cool youre in game programming. It always seemed really interesting to me but id be more interested in the story writing and music aspect of games.
Well just ask what their plans are over the next year, if there’s anything new they wanted to try, even just like a pet project not even a job.
Lazy is a label people paint others or themselves with. It’s not an innate character trait, it can be gained or lost.
Little nudges and brainstorming are fine but I don’t think anyone wants someone else’s vision of their life pushed on to them. What’s more valuable is if you could support them with things they’ve expressed they want to do.
I have asked. They always say nothing.
Agree, theyre not really lazy. They just say they are a lot.
Agree. The problem is they dont want to do anything. Idk, I guess some people want nothing more than to game and that is fine, I just dont see it lasting late into life.
Next time they talk bad about themselves (saying they are stupid etc), you can tell them that it’s bothering you to hear that, because you like them and want them to be happy feel good about themselves.
You can ask them if they are happy with life, and if they like themselves.
Then instead of asking what they want to do, start with asking who they would like to be. What personality traits would make them feel good about themselves? How would they feel if they could see themselves as someone who tries instead of someone who is lazy, or as someone who is clever or knowledgeable or studious or learning, instead of stupid (or whatever they just called themselves)?
And, before giving any sort of suggestions or solutions or tips (that is the hard part!), ask if you can make give some tips and if they’re open to discussions/ideas. Confirm what you’ve learnt in the conversation (they dislike X and would want to feel Y, you care for them and want to support them in feeling better about X or working towards feeling Y), maybe even thank them for being so open/vulnerable/honest with you, and that you would like to work on this with them if they’ll let you.
If they say they are happy where they are and would not want anything to be different, or if they don’t want help when you ask to give it (this is the hardest part) - drop it. You can mention that you’re always ready to bounce ideas if they change their mind later, but then you change the subject. Don’t give any tips or hints or anything, unless they ask for it. If you find something that might be in their wheelhouse, ask if they want the info before you pass it on (“I saw that they have a gaming club at the library, is that something you’re interested in/curious about?” Or “I got a flyer for a coding camp, do you want me to send it to you?”).
Finally, try to avoid the “you should try it”-finisher after talking about something fun you’ve done. If they think it sounds fun enough they can ask about more details, but if you suggest it the whole story might just turn from something fun to something else they should (but never will) do.
And finally finally: sometimes people grow apart. If they’re not putting effort into the friendship you don’t have to carry the whole relationship. Hopefully you still have fun together and the care and attention goes both ways, but if it’s not it’s absolutely fine to redirect your energy to other people who might be valuing your time and energy and enjoy your company more, and develop those relationships instead.
Yeah. It’s tough, probably the only other thing you could do is lead by example.
