• Alteon@lemmy.world
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    23 hours ago

    We unfortunately live in a two-party system. If these alienated voters are being forced to choose between the transphobe, or someone who wants to systematically eradicate trans people, I hope those alienated voters wisen the fuck up real quick.

    At that point, their noble protest vote (or abstinence from voting) does nothing but make the world a worse place. Learn to fight for progress, instead of kneecapping everyone else from being able to do so because your candidate doesn’t toe the line with literally every single one of your values.

    • Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone
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      21 hours ago

      Which of your rights are you voting away with candidates that don’t “toe the line” with your right to exist as a human being?

      Why are you so comfortable demanding other people give up their rights while doing none of that yourself?

      Why is it more reasonable to you to demand trans people vote against their own rights than to do even the tiniest amount of work pressuring Newsom to stop the fucking transphobia?

      • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        Regarding giving up rights comment: who is most likely to change their stance if you were to personally talk to them directly:

        Trump or Newsom?

        Pressuring one to change their stance isn’t the same as vilifying them. Republican GOP pigs vilify. That’s their play. Let’s be better than that. At least to each other please.

        • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          Regarding giving up rights comment: who is most likely to change their stance if you were to personally talk to them directly:

          Trump or Newsom?

          They both have moved substantially to the right on trans issues. Both are just following opinion polls. So really, I think either are just about as likely. Both of them are amoral monsters that believe in nothing.

        • hatorade@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          Trump or Newsom?

          Neither one. They don’t listen to the public. They listen to the donor class.

        • Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          20 hours ago

          Please point out where I have vilified Newsom. Because pointing out his transphobia isn’t it. Asking people to pressure his office to knock the transphobia the fuck off—the very thing you are suggesting I should take into account—isn’t it either.

          If you’re saying I’m vilifying other users by asking pointed questions about why they’re so comfortable asking trans voters to vote for someone who is onboard with removing their rights, I don’t accept that as vilification either.

      • Fjdybank@lemmy.ca
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        21 hours ago

        Fuck off with that virtue signalling. The point above remains valid. Vote out the one that WANTS TO ERADICATE MARGINALISED PEOPLE then focus on improving the less-bad candidate.

        It remains the less-bad outcome.

        • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          Sorry. If trans people and their allies are such a small insignificant group that our rights are negotiable, then you’ve decided our votes aren’t important.

          To liberals, Dems can sacrifice trans people because we’re so few in number. At the same time, they’ll demand trans people vote Dem because every vote counts. In the classic fascist fashion, we’re both weak and powerful at the same time somehow.

          Sorry, but I won’t vote for a vice signaller like Newsom.

          • Fjdybank@lemmy.ca
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            18 hours ago

            Then you’re a direct enabler of trump. Fuck you and your high minded puratism.

            Newsom might listen and change. Trump will not. Choose your battle.

            • hatorade@lemmy.world
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              18 hours ago

              Then tell him to change his mind and stop telling trans people to vote for someone who actively wants them removed.

              You’re telling black people on 1960s to vote for George Wallace.

              • Fjdybank@lemmy.ca
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                15 hours ago

                I’ll tell him. And I’ll continue to vote for him even if he doesn’t change his mind. will you?

                • hatorade@lemmy.world
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                  10 hours ago

                  He’s slightly better, so yes. But I’m going to expect better from the lesser evil than the evil party of Republicans.

                • Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone
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                  13 hours ago

                  Why would “you need to change but if you don’t we’ll support you anyway” be a remotely effective message for achieving political change?

            • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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              18 hours ago

              Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Newsom, like Labor in the UK, shamelessly feed in to transphobia in an attempt to pander to the right. UK liberals haven’t listened. And corporate Democrats are walking the same path, completely ignoring their constituents. Trump is as likely to change on the issue as Newsom is. In fact, both have changed their views on trans issues to move substantially to the right. Both have walked the same road.

              Sorry, but fuck you and your fascist collaboration. And specifically, fuck your lack of morals. The amorality of liberals like yourself is precisely why fascists are advancing. You’re a fascist enabler and collaborator.

              Just listen to yourself. You’re condemning someone for having a moral center. That’s psychopath behavior.

                • WraithGear@lemmy.world
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                  5 hours ago

                  not what he fucking said, and you know it. but newsom is the worse choice democrats could make

              • Fjdybank@lemmy.ca
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                15 hours ago

                Trump is as likely to change on the issue as Newsom is.

                Hahahahaha k

                Sorry, but fuck you and your fascist collaboration. And specifically, fuck your lack of morals. The amorality of liberals like yourself is precisely why fascists are advancing. You’re a fascist enabler and collaborator.

                Don’t be sorry, you have an opinion. It’s a stupid fucking opinion, but it’s one nonetheless. Fascists are advancing because of vote abstainers and the consistency of those on the right. I’ll continue to vote left, just as I’ll continue to abuse those on the right. If you’re not voting Democrat in the US system, you’re enabling right. Pretty cut and dried.

        • Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          21 hours ago

          “Wanting to exist as a human being in public” is now virtue signaling, very nice.

          If it’s super important for trans people to all vote for whatever candidate Dems put forward, and you also believe Newsom is the likely candidate, then you should call his office and tell him that the transphobia is alienating voters. Because it is.

          • Fjdybank@lemmy.ca
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            18 hours ago

            I agree! I so agree. But, and here’s the rub, I’ll vote for him even if he doesn’t change his position. Because he is not the existential threat posed by the GOP.

            • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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              18 hours ago

              He is an existential threat. Newsom has opposed and vetoed bills advancing trans rights. This isn’t just rhetoric.

              • Fjdybank@lemmy.ca
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                15 hours ago

                You refuse to acknowledge my underlying point, that although Newsom (Democrat party by extension) is a threat, Trump and the GOP will / actively ARE displacing minorities (including trans).

                But go on, continue attacking the less-worse outcome. Hope that helps when ICE comes knocking.

                • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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                  12 hours ago

                  Or how about we just tell Newsom to go fuck himself and nominate a Democrat who isn’t a transphobic piece of human garbage?

                  Look, you can ignore the words that trans people are trying to tell you. But trans folks and their allies are not going to vote for an openly transphobic Democratic candidate. You lost in 2024 because you refused to listen to members of your base saying that there are some red lines you can’t cross. You want to try that play again, see how it works again?

                  Democrats are only five years behind Republicans. Newsom is Republican from five years ago. 2 years into his first term, he will be just as bad as Trump is now. He’s not going to reverse any of the bigoted policies of the Trump administration.

                  Frankly, if the majority aren’t willing to stand up to protect trans folks, then you all can burn with us. If I’m going to the camps regardless of which party wins, I’ll happily watch the rest of you descend into utter ruin. You want to abandon minority groups? Then you deserve whatever karma brings your way.

                  • Fjdybank@lemmy.ca
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                    11 hours ago

                    With that attitude, writ large across different minorites (with competing values), we are condemned to suffer under the boot.

                    It is interesting to note that you have projected certain perspectives (e.g. abandoning trans) into my position. These words are not found, nor implied, in anything I’ve stated.

                    I will continue to rail against authoritarianism and fascism. You may blame me as much as you wish, and I hope you find some measure of fulfillment.

            • hatorade@lemmy.world
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              18 hours ago

              So you’ll vote for him if he keeps the Republican talking points, got it. You don’t care what they stand for, but the party they’re with.

            • Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone
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              18 hours ago

              Cool, not sure what you want me to do with that information. I don’t think it was ever in question whether you or any other liberal who is offended by trans people demanding Newsom drop the transphobia would ultimately support him, or any other candidate with his policies, no matter what.

              The question is if other voters will. If you don’t think it will change anything, then criticizing his transphobia won’t matter. If you think it will affect who votes for him, then you better start ringing his phone off the hook about it and you better start quick, because the days of trans people being quiet about it are gone. If you want to be the party of trans rights that means you also have to listen to trans people, not just use us as a decoration.

              https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/

        • Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          21 hours ago

          Which Democratic candidate did you vote for to lose them?

          Why do you assume that isn’t also a right I’ve lost?

          • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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            11 hours ago

            Democrats are frankly quite complicit in the fall of Roe. They never bothered to codify Roe into law, because many of their own members found the topic awkward and icky, so they never bothered to do it. And they made the cold political calculation that keeping abortion as a continual political issue that they could run on was more important than actually protecting the right to abortion.

            • Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone
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              20 hours ago

              Fair enough. Which democratic candidate did you vote for to lose reproductive healthcare rights? Because if the answer is “nobody” then that’s a disingenuous comparison. ‘Republicans took away our rights, so you have to vote for a Democratic candidate that wants to take away yours’ doesn’t even make sense.

    • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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      18 hours ago

      There is no compromising with transphobes. Sports are just a way to get the foot in the door. It’s not like conservatives actually give a shit about women’s sports. It starts with sports. Next you’re “protecting women’s spaces” by forcing women to use the men’s restroom and locker room. Next you’re denying accurate ID documents to people to “fight gender fraud.”

      I would call this a slippery slope fallacy, but this is the exact same track that both conservatives and liberals have taken. The UK liberal government is one of the most transphobic in the developed world.

      Sorry, I’m not going to vote for a candidate that’s going to support destroying my life, even if they happen to be a Democrat. If Newsom gets the nomination in 2028, I’ll stay home on election day. Sorry. You don’t get to throw minority groups on to a pyre and then whine when they refuse to support you.

      “I just stabbed you, but why aren’t you voting for me???”