Can someone “redpilled by corporate” explain me how this policy actually increase security?
It’s trivial for a malware developer to pay $25 with a stolen card and a stolen id
Look at the “verified” bots on xitter, they didn’t solve the bots problem, rather just monetized it
Google is doing this to comply with EU regulations supposed to increase security. Now imagine that Google was pushing back against this instead of complying. As per usual, Lemmy would be up in arms against Google for failing to protect people’s data and not complying with our laws and culture. You’d be downvoted to oblivion for asked that question and called a corporate bootlicker.
I think these rules come from German legal culture, which traditionally has a strong need to control information exchange and processing.
the way they originally phrased it, it was seemingly because of authoritarian governments like singapore wanting to exert more control (hey google, can you revoke the certificate or doxx this dev for us?) and then they realized that they could make more money if they extended this block worldwide
I’m sure the EU is not the only jurisdiction demanding this sort of thing, but I doubt Singapore has the pull needed to get Google to move.
Brussels effect. Imagine Google were to still allow unverified apps in the US. Most devs would still opt for verification so as not to lose the EU market. The proportion of malware is probably going to be higher among the few remaining unverified apps. Sooner or later, some US scam victims would sue Google for failing to protect them like it protects Europeans. Hard to refute.
I presume they are implying that the play store review process will catch compromised apps? Not likely considering how many dodgy apps have been found on play store. It’s just another controlling act.
I would assume that you won’t just be able to register with a stolen id and stolen card.
if scammers can open a bank account with stolen identities, i’d assume google, which is entirely run by bots without any human oversight, wouldn’t have a better detection
You don’t think Google have better tech than banks?
Oh boy. You have no idea how old and bad the underlying tech that banks work on is.
It’s not about stopping malware; it’s about being able to act on malware.
Making a new account with a new phone number and new credit card is a minor barrier to entry.
That said, it’s a cool story, but I think they’re looking to stop vanced style patching.
It’s a lie. Google just wants control.
Corporate needs to have somebody to sue in case of a policy violation. Very especially those debloated apps that float around the web - they need to ensure they have a physical person to pin the blame to in court.
The vast majority of malware isn’t delivered via play store because of the existing measures and protections they have. Same reason you see very little app-store-based malware on iOS. DISCLAIMER: YES MALWARE EXISTS ON APPLE HARDWARE PLEASE DON’T SHOUT AT ME. Talking specifically about anything installed via first party stores on both platforms.
Their main issue is this: dumb people install apks from spurious website and infect their phones. The least controllable and most pervasive factor here is the intelligence and knowledge of the user which cannot be controlled for by Google. So by eliminating the ability to exploit this entirely, it will eliminate that specific vector.
It’s a sledgehammer solution that naturally comes with many downsides like disrupting intelligent and knowledgeable users that just want to hack around with FOSS and such.
Google is relying on It being too expensive for malware creators to have to guide each individual user through adb installation and usage process just to get access to their phone. Most scammers only do that level of interaction to extract actual cash/gift cards from the target.
I am personally and directly affected by their decision in many negative ways, but I’m not so dense as to not understand why they’re doing it.
/corpodronespeak
EDIT: bots help Xitter maintain inflated usage figures which justify people’s jobs, share prices, etc. Bots are a feature, not a bug.
Their main issue is this: dumb people install apks from spurious website
No they don’t. Most people don’t even know what an apk even is.
Most people don’t know what a bootloader is. They still turn their devices on and off every day.
This whole conversation is about adding obstacles to prevent non technical users from doing things they don’t fully understand.
The overwhelming majority of Android users don’t even know where to start to install software outside of the Play Store. If they’re even aware that it’s possible.
It’s actually an incredibly common way that they are infected, especially in places where WhatsApp is the default communication platform
Yes you’re right. If they knew, it would likely come with the knowledge that, if someone asks you to do this, you’re probably being scammed.
That’s what makes them most vulnerable to these kinds of scams.
yes, of course malware is distributed via apk.
But what’s the difference between:
- malware that is signed anonymously and then, when its signature is identified, it’s removed via play protect
- malware that is signed with a stolen identity and then, when its signature is identified, it’s removed via play protect
?
Isn’t exactly the same stuff? Or there’s someone that is actually thinking that criminals will use their real ID card for the verification?
Does not change anything for malware distribution, except bother them for a dozen minutes meanwhile they “verify” their stolen ID
Because it can be invalidated. That’s the difference.
It’s absolutely not foolproof, but nothing is. Most actions corps take for this stuff only slows down the spread. Hackers and bad actors innovate way faster than companies can keep up with. So companies cast a wide net with their solutions. And the cycle continues.
Apks can be invalidated after installation?
with the new system, you must go online to check if the license for that app is still valid or revoked. But the current system works almost the same: if there’s an internet connection play protect checks the signature against an online malware db and prevents installation.
From a couple years ago, google has the power to remotely install/uninstall any apk on your phone without your consent
No, the certificate can be invalidated preventing future installations for other users. If you already have it you’re SOOL
Found the 91 Google employees
i love how google will basically destroy the worlds most popular mobile operating system just to protect youtube premium revenue
thats my theory too.
this is exactly why google should have been broken up.
Honestly at this point they actually likely need to be EVEN MORE strict to deal with how bad the app store is and how many scam apps are floating around.
My grand father has been given like 30 scam apks to install via email that we’re just crypto ransomware basically, and he’s had to reformat his phone at least 10 times this year from installing scam shit from the playstore it self too.
Both the playstore AND scammers are target android like crazy
There’s basically no way to crack down on it short of what they are doing and frankly it’s still not enough.
Anyone who thinks this is just Google being evil is massive fucking out of touch with the reality of what elderly and less it savvy people have to deal with. It fucking SUCKS.
And I fucking hate these changes too, but even I cant say it’s enough. There’s too many fucking shit bag assholes ruining all the good things.
They should just display more warning’s or safeguards, they don’t have to remove it completely. There’s several apps that I use that google would never let register. :(
They also already have installation from external sources turned on by default.
Why the hell are we babying people who turn it off? They read the warning, they know the risks.
i agree
ThIs ApPLicAtIoN iS DaNgErOuS
Google can go fuck itself.
Hopefully this will put some jet fuel into the Linux phone development.
Google can go fuck itself.
Google would much rather go fuck you.
they need thier AI to profit somehow, mining all your data to offeset the cost of those data centers.
i wonder if it’s possible for fdroid or another dev to make a linux/windows/osx app which basically uses an adb connection to automatically upload and install applications
Shizuku provides this fully on-device for android 10 or 11 and above, and droid-ify supports using shizuku to install apps.
The one main downside is that it only works when you’re connected to wifi.
I’m checking out Graphene OS next week and pretty pumped about it. This Google ratfucking has been just the push I need to get off Android.
And obviously I haven’t stopped telling people around me haha
Graphene is bult on top of android AOSP, which is owned by google… And of course they are fucking it over.
Check calyxos.org s recent blog posts, it is basically dying (and graphene is the same)
What happened to the Open Handset Alliance?
The what?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance
Google doesn’t “own” Android. They (and the OHA) are the maintainers. AOSP is open source.
GrapheneOS isn’t dying. There’s an OEM partnership in the works and they’ll release devices with support for GrapheneOS in a year or two. GrapheneOS still provides updates and while the changes have made some things harder, the project is still going strong.
The pause in Calyx updates has nothing to do with Google’s fuckery, and they are not “dying.” They lost a major lead developer and decided they needed to restructure so no one would be so essential going forward.
Google is messing with AOSP pixel drivers: https://calyxos.org/news/2025/06/11/android-16-plans/ Thats what I was referring to, but yeah, that is also a thing.
So… huh, so what’s the alternative then? I guess some other flavour of linux?
For mobile phones that works as a daily driver? Gobbling up iOS. Or gobbling up what’s becoming of Android.
I really wish we had open phones that “just work”. I’d even go with slightly quirky but functional. Unfortunately, that requires strong cooperation between hardware maker and software developers; and it will require a lot of work. But that’s not the main issue. The direction we’re headed toward is “everything need an official app”, and those will mostly only work on “official” phones made by big manufacturers.
Even today, making some bank apps work on non vanilla Android is not always straightforward, and it’s still relatively open and easy to do. The move by Google is going to tighten this even more, and I have no doubt, if they pull through, that this will go in the requirements for the “play protect” validation BS. Meaning if you want that bank app, or whatever state digital ID app (meh) to work, you’ll need a “real” Android or an iOS device. And those apps are becoming more and more mandatory (I can’t log-in to my bank’s online website without their app and proprietary 2FA…).
A niche, open-source OS, Linux or modified AOSP or whatever, will have a hard time filling that gap as things keep moving. Which is really sad.
Most F-Droid users are NOT custom ROMs.
This means that as long as F-Droid does not get their own developer key - it will become useless. F-Droid is privacy focused - both dev and user, and they oppose requiring devs to essentially give up their privacy and sign the APK with their own dev key.Now, if F-Droid is dead, GrapheneOS becomes useless. Who would want to develop apps for the 0.0001% of the population (i.e custom ROM users)
GrapheneOS will be fine without F-Droid.
This.
I am the person you are talking about. I’ve looked into graphene before and I do host some of my own services at home. I also work full time and I don’t want to spend all of my free time managing things. I use F-Droid, but I am on stock android on my pixel.
I appreciate the privacy and FOSS nature of F-Droid, but I use things like Android auto Google maps for work, I use banking apps on my phone as well. I know technically micro G and blah blah blah, but like I said: work full time.
Just FYI, absolutely everything you mentioned works absolutely fine OOTB on GrapheneOS with no tinkering.
You are of course aware that Graphene OS is affected just like any other version of Android?
GrapheneOS won’t be affected. The developer verification thing will be handled by another app and won’t be part of the OS. That app won’t have permission to block app installs or anything like that.
What?? I was not. I thought it was compatible, or like a fork idk… Guess I’ve got some reading to do.
Developer ID verification will be part of Google Play and won’t be present in GrapheneOS
Straight from the horse’s mouth. The rest of the post is a good reminder that GrapheneOS are morons.
But why would you lie about this?
I don’t see why it would need to be affected.
The constraint to require a valid signing isn’t something imposed by the license on the Android code. If you want to distribute a version of Android that doesn’t check for a registered signature, that should work fine.
I mean, the Graphene guys could impose that constraint. But they don’t have to do so.
I think that there’s a larger issue of practicality, though. Stuff like F-Droid works in part because you don’t need to install an alternative firmware on your phone — it’s not hard to install an alternate app store with the stock firmware. If suddenly using a package from a developer that isn’t registered with Google requires installing an alternate firmware, that’s going to severely limit the potential userbase for that package.
Even if you can handle installing the alternate firmware, a lot of developers probably just aren’t going to bother trying to develop software without being registered.
But if Graphene chooses not to do this, they diverge from the Android project. Which will take more time to maintain the project which will ultimately lead to more developers burning out and dropping out of the project.
It doesn’t need to be affected, but most open source projects don’t have the resources to keep going against big companies when most of their users aren’t contributing.
The aosp has been in the process of being gutted, I surmise in preparation of these anti consumer measures, graphene os has its work cut out for it. I imagine that after the dust settles, consumers will have to pick between an immature Linux os or their personal preference of walled garden.
I would guess that it’s probably not much by way of change — theoretically, maybe just a single line patch — to cause this check not to take place.
Theoretically it might be, but it’s another patch you’ll have to maintain
They already diverge by having a network permission and a bunch of other differences, and not being allowed to use Google Pay because of those differences
That might be true, I don’t know much about GrapheneOS. But I do know that users of open source projects expecting changes to come out of thin air, and filing bugs when they don’t, is hurting the volunteers behind open source projects. So we should all make sure to volunteer some of our own time or money to keep the projects we love going, instead of just expecting them to fix the things we dislike.
And more and more, apps require to be run as playstore version only with server side checks…
Graphene could sandbox the integrity check, just like they do with the Play Store.
It becomes an integrity check arms race. Graphene OS devs not keen on this idea, but they may not have a choice in the near future
GrapheneOS wasn’t going to be affected anyway and there’s nothing for the GrapheneOS developers to change. The developer verification thing will be done by proprietary Google apps. Those apps cannot get the necessary permissions to block app installs or disable apps.
F-Droid works […]
[…]
[…] that’s going to severely limit the potential userbase for that package.
I don’t think most developers who are putting their Open-Source apps on F-Droid have any minimum user threshold.
Get off Android to … Android 🤪
Yeah, I’ll switch to absolutely anything that allows open installation of third party apps.
But for such major FOSS development, we usually have to throw money at them in advance, which is the problem.
So… Will the ADB let me do this? reVanced specially, YouTube is completely unwatchable otherwise.
Shizuku + Obtainium might still be an option.
I wouldn’t count on it. I’m 100% expecting them to follow up on this in another update, blocking devices from wirelessly debugging themselves for “security” reasons.
All APKs will need a valid Google developer signature.
Doesn’t matter if it’s installed from GitHub or F-Droid, no signature, no installation.
Shizuku is installing via adb
I haven’t used revanced in a while, but Fennic + ubo + sponsor block should get you to basically the same place unless they’ve added new features since I used it last.
No separate app required.
That’s what it sounds like.
I suspect this is designed to block revanced entirely. It won’t be able to install the apk it compiles or downloads, so apps won’t be able to update even if you have it installed via adb to begin with.
Revanced won’t be able to install, but you could still install manually the apk it creates. That’s what I do (not through adb though).
After this you won’t be able to install it manually
All APKs will require a signed developer certificate.
I doubt they will be signing keys for developers who circumvent Google’s services, or that violate their ToS.
They’re copying this scheme from Apple in Europe, when it was forced to allow other app stores.
In that case, Apple revoked certificates for apps it didn’t like, such as P2P/torrents. Mind you, these were NOT apps that were not hosted on Apple’s App Store.
But ADB bypasses it.
(for now, at least)
They’re doing the same thing Apple has been doing for years, I used to run a self-signing application which ran every week or so by itself.
Workarounds are going to exist plenty, it’s just a slap in the face. Especially because the Play Store is filled with malware. Apple’s strict rules are horrible for developers, but at least it’s not as riddled with malware.
How long until they patch out getting developer mode working on you phone without a registration, requiring you to pay for it and also take a “short” AI generated crash course in app development and monetization?
We really need some money poured into the Linux mobile space because this is a terrible direction to go.
Plain AOSP is already pretty brutal. An alternate OS is practically a non-starter. Phones aren’t just web browsers and SMS.
- Tap-to-pay
- Including transit fares
- Bank apps
- RCS messaging
- MFA and security apps
- Work profiles
- Streaming media that’s not 480p
Not to mention that the camera is going to suuuuuuuuck.
Forking or improving AOSP is more viable but none of the more mainstream ROMs want to piss off Google. That’s why most LineageOS forums forbid talking about defeating Play Integrity.
Also no GPU driver, because even if the manufacturer does actually provide it, some nerd within the community will block it for not being “free software” enough and that “for light 2D applications, CPU blitter is more than enough”.
On a mobile device? It’s more likely that only OSS drivers work and the binary blob driver only worked with a pre-Pandemic aged kernel. Or it needed a very specific userspace library that doesn’t work with a minimal libc.
“Free software enough” usually means “has a snowball’s chance of actually working”.
- Tap-to-pay
dug my pinephone out of a drawer yesterday and gave it a whirl. still pretty rough unfortunately even after updating postmarket os.
Cool being able to SSH into my phone though
I’m still hoping they can get to a state for more general users. I really want one still. I need a Linux phone doing the old sidekick designs.
tbh part of the rough experience for me may be down to the hardware. the ubports version of the pinephone i have is quite low power. 2GB memory and a little ARM Cortex-A53
tis sluggish
The main issue will be application support.
Linux running on the desktop in 2025 is helped immensely by everything being web based. So long as you have a browser you are fine for a lot of general computing.
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
Getting a banking app, or Uber or Facebook Messenger to work on a Linux phone is going to be a massive pain in the ass (ignoring the rest of the OS which is definitely not even close to useable for the general public).
I would love a Linux phone but we are so far away.
I’m sure there will be some sort of compatibility layer available. Android Linux based after all.
There already is! I had a Furi Labs FLX1 for a while and it was able to run Android apps surprisingly via Andromeda (their fork of Waydroid).
i’m just gonna switch to steam deck + gsm router
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
That’s true, but for everything non-free, they always end up having a perfectly working web app that will accept my money.
Cool being able to SSH into my phone though
I thought you could do that on Android?
Yeah, you absolutely can, and without needing root or anything.
What did you expect? Did you think we were living in a fairy tale and could build a better world?
Thankfully I have root, I’ll just simply hook into it runtime via Xposed to bypass this nonsense.
Seriously anyone who doesn’t have root on their Android devices these days and age, well may Google have mercy on you lol
Are you certain you’ll be able to do this? Do you have more info?
Recent AOSP repo added lines of code to Package Installer to handle enforcing restricting whether Package Installer installs an APK file or not based on dev signatures, as well as denying installation if internet isn’t available so it can’t contact Google’s servers for dev signature verification.
So this is enforced by Package Installer, which is already how Google enforces their ridiculous minimal SDK version requirement for installing APK packages, as well as for blocking app update with an APK package with mismatched signature or blocking downgrading an existing app with an APK package, which I already have bypassed via Xposed this way.
Besides, rooting gives YOU total control over your own device like when you have sudo on Linux, even if Google tries some new BS there will be a way to counter it when you have root
The crux of the issue is not as many people will do this so app devs will be less inclined to release the good OSS
And not as many people ever even care about doing this is exactly how we got to this point.
Don’t say that on XDA. Half the people there will say you don’t actually need root to do what you want and the other half will demand you justify why you specifically need root before they even entertain the idea that having full privileges on your own fucking hardware is a valid desire.
XDA is dead, and you just described one of the symptoms of a forum being dead.
That said there are still a small amount of people posting detailed posts for rooting Xperia phones, for how to flash OS updates with unlocked bootloader without losing your user data, for how to bypass carrier restrictions to get international model to work with the 5G bands in the US via build.conf edit and baseband flashing, etc. There are perks of a community being small and niche, and I guess not everyone is brained washed by Samsung’s propaganda they use to justify permanently locked bootloader on their phones lol
I used to root every phone, but by 2025 I’ve given up. Hard to unlock bootloaders, random apps (especially banking) thinking you will get hacked and stops working, the entire community around rooting and mods is like 10% of what it used to me, hardly any modern phone still gets custom roms, etc… Recently saw some statistic about custom roms - on average, around 50 phones 5-8 years ago had support for custom roms. By 2025, that number has fallen to 4.
Android is not what it used to be
You said it like banking apps will be happy to work with a Linux phone lol, the banks always have their interests inherently conflict with user control anyway. And rooting and getting a custom ROM (one which exists or otherwise) are two completely different things that have nothing to do with each other, and you shouldn’t support manufecturers who choose to make it difficult to unlock bootloader anyway.
By 2025, rooting still empowers you to make your own Android device however you like it to be.
Also not many people care about custom ROM these days because Android stock ROM got much better in average, so there’s much less a need for creating a brand new ROM just to get basic features. Why making a brand new ROM instead of modding the pretty good one you already have now. And root empowered ROM modding tools that are developed as Magisk module or Xposed modules still have a pretty big community, there’s a long list of pretty big repos with hundreds of modules each, and with how sophisticated Magisk and Lsposed have evolved it’s easier than ever to write your own mods
I normally use ADB anyway, but wouldn’t surprise me if that becomes more locked down as well. For example, I believe Meta Quest requires a developer account with a credit card attached to even put it in developer mode, and I worry that kind of bullshit will become the norm.
You don’t need a credit card for a dev account. You do, however, need to have a “business” attached. Luckily, that business they’re asking for doesn’t need to be verified, so it can be just a random string of letters.
Still bs that you have to go through all of that just to install apps you want.
So I guess I’m going to have to learn to use ADB.
I believe side loaders for the meta quest already use it under the hood. maybe there’s potential to make a side loading app store
Easy but annoying.
Literally TODAY someone I know installed an application called “PDF viewer for android” that had a green adobe icon and it started wrecking absolute havoc on their phone with pop ads and redirects to scam support sites.
The AppStore is full of this shit.
but directly installing apks on the phone should still be possible then, right… riiiight?
wireless debugging, you can connect the phone to itself via a wifi network, then send adb commands to itself. loopholes lol
i somehow skipped the “non-” part of the headline. thanks for the info though - when i came across this a couple of months ago, i couldn’t really think of any good use for it
Wait… what? Tell us more details…
Shizuku
