Just like they did to me, when they said the only thing that drew me to communism was “propaganda” as opposed to my time working under capitalism. The difference is that I discounted their unsubstantiated claims about statistical facts while they discounted my own journey.
Yeah but you did it first.
According to Quora? Great, so now we have two internet randos saying something.
I mean you could get up off your butt and look yourself if you have a problem with the source I provided. Like I said there’s a wealth of information out there regarding the subject. You could also try to dispute my source instead of just dismissing it out of hand - like you did to u/Blacklazor.
Finally. Say what you will about Russian state media, but at least it’s more of a source than random people on the internet, which you seem to primarily rely on.
Ahh, so you’ll trust media from the oppressors you agree with. So basically you’re a tankie equvalent of MAGA.
What on earth?? “The account checks out” when they were exaggerating somewhere between 2-5 times the actual numbers?
So you didn’t actually read anymore about the subject, right? Why am I not suprised.
The claim was not, “you had to wait 20-30 years for an upgrade” it was specifically “You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment.” That’s completely unsupported by your sources.
Read the rest of that paragraph please. I’ll post it here to make it easy for you.
You weren’t getting any housing in that system. You could enlist in a queue and wait for 20-30 years to get piss poor commie block apartment. My father was one of very few people who were just well enough for building a house. He was struggling with money, rationing of materials, corruption and poor quality of work, while our family of four lived in 20m2 apartment like animals in stables.
I.e. His family of four lived in a 20 sqm apartment (less than 9sqm per person) and would have to wait 20-30 years to get a “piss poor commie block apartment.” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to characterize “waiting 20-30 years” as “never.” Now if you’d read the sources I posted you’d see this aligns very closely with what is described - that being most people who weren’t rich or connected to an oligarch had to wait more than 10 years for an apartment. I even found a source that broke it down into a nice and helpful chart - see if you can find that source yourself.
I mean, I know you won’t becuase this hands your ass to your arguement on a sliver platter with a side of trimmings, and if there’s one thing people like you can’t stand it’s being proved wrong, bu whatever.
As it turns out, I was 100% right to be skeptical, because your own sources back me up and show that the other person was completely wrong.
Except in real life it wasn’t, what u/blacklazor described aligns pretty well with the accounts on both pages, and other sources you will find if you just quit being lazy and put in the effort.
Skipping the rest of the bullshit you posted for my own mental health. There is a wealth of information that you can get with a few simple googles, please read up and stop embarassing yourself.
No, literally this was from their very first comment.
You could also try to dispute my source instead of just dismissing it out of hand - like you did to u/Blacklazor.
Again, random internet users are not a credible source. Pointing that fact out is disputing your source. Don’t they teach you this in school?
Ahh, so you’ll trust media from the oppressors you agree with. So basically you’re a tankie equvalent of MAGA.
YOU posted the source! If I had rejected it, you’d be attacking me for blindly dismissing anything that contradicts my worldview! Damned if I do, damned if I don’t, there’s no winning with you.
I literally called attention to the fact that your source is Russian state media, and that you can “say what you will about it,” to indicate that it’s not fully trustworthy. Were you even aware it was affiliated with the Russian government?
I.e. His family of four lived in a 20 sqm apartment (less than 9sqm per person) and would have to wait 20-30 years to get a “piss poor commie block apartment.”
That’s not what he said at all. The 20 sqm apartment was the “piss poor commie block apartment” that one would have to wait 20-30 years for.
Now if you’d read the sources I posted you’d see this aligns very closely with what is described - that being most people who weren’t rich or connected to an oligarch had to wait more than 10 years for an apartment.
I did read your sources, and they in fact said that most people had to wait 6-7 years:
“On average, the waiting time to receive an apartment from the state in the USSR was around six to seven years.”
In fact, you got it backwards. The part about “over 10 years” is about public sector employees. Even then, 10 is significantly less that “20-30,” but I suppose they didn’t teach you that either.
I mean, I know you won’t becuase this hands your ass to your arguement on a sliver platter with a side of trimmings, and if there’s one thing people like you can’t stand it’s being proved wrong, bu whatever.
Lmao, your source saying 6-7 years in contrast to the claim of 20-30 “hands my ass to my argument on a silver platter with a side of trimmings?” Is there any number that would lead you to admit you’re wrong? What would it have to be, 3 years? 1 year? A week? Apparently it can be off by a factor of 5, and you’ll still treat it as some kind of smoking gun that proves I won’t accept being proven wrong.
The projection is truly off the scales.
and other sources you will find if you just quit being lazy and put in the effort.
Skipping the rest of the bullshit you posted
The fact that you posted these right next to each other 😆
Whatever son. It’s a free country, so go with whatever bullshit you want. The evidence backs up u/Blacklazor and not you, I love how you just can’t handle it.
I would also like to point out the parts of his comments that you didn’t dispute or don’t have a probem with, such as his father “needed to get a permit to leave the country,” or that food was “rationed, not subsidized,” or the fact that in order to get housing, one must get on a list and wait multiple years in the first place. I mean, yeah that sure does sound like a great place to live.
But please, go do the work and read up on the subject, because you’re wrong on pretty much all of your points above. Like this one:
That’s not what he said at all. The 20 sqm apartment was the “piss poor commie block apartment” that one would have to wait 20-30 years for.
Nope. If you would’ve actually done the research, you’d have seen that one is usually given a bed in a dormatory, then must get on a waiting list for a “piss poor commie block apartment.” The tiny apartment where a family of four is squeezed into 20sqm is after they waited multiple years. This is if they were lucky enough to get an apartment they didn’t have to share with multiple other families.
Now please put in the effort and read up on it, because you’re really misinformed.
Whatever son. It’s a free country, so go with whatever bullshit you want. The evidence backs up u/Blacklazor and not you, I love how you just can’t handle it.
The evidence you presented points to 6-7, not 20-30. I don’t know how else to say it, you’re just objectively wrong by a factor of 3-5 by your own source, and no amount of pretending otherwise will change that fact.
I would also like to point out the parts of his comments that you didn’t dispute or don’t have a probem with
See, this is the problem. Nowhere did I actually claim that the USSR was some kind of perfect utopia. You just assigned those positions to me because you decided I’m a “tankie” so I must believe that, instead of listening to what I actually say. Attacking me over claims I didn’t make is the definition of a strawman.
Nope. If you would’ve actually done the research, you’d have seen that one is usually given a bed in a dormatory, then must get on a waiting list for a “piss poor commie block apartment.” The tiny apartment where a family of four is squeezed into 20sqm is after they waited multiple years. This is if they were lucky enough to get an apartment they didn’t have to share with multiple other families.
This, again, is not how it works. If you “actually did the research” then show me the evidence. You can’t just allude vaguely to some claim you found somewhere, especially since the sources you’ve cited so far, a random Quora user and Russian state media you didn’t realize was Russian state media, don’t exactly fill me with confidence regarding your investigative standards.
It just blows my mind how hypocritical you can be, you found evidence that clearly proves you wrong and you keep projecting on to me that I won’t change my mind in the light of evidence that I’m right.
6-7 is less than 20-30. That’s really all that needs to be said. You just can’t accept that basic mathematical fact because you’re an ideologue.
You just can’t accept that basic mathematical fact because you’re an ideologue.
No, I think you refuse to do the research on this subject because you’re the actual ideologue here. You have an emotional stake in somehow proving that the USSR wasn’t a totalitarian inept impoverished wasteland, and actually learning what life was like under that system would destroy your worldview.
I’m the only one of us capable of acknowledging that 7 is a smaller number than 20. If understanding elementary school level math makes me an ideologue, a tankie, whatever else, then so be it. Nothing you say changes those numbers.
Yeah but you did it first.
I mean you could get up off your butt and look yourself if you have a problem with the source I provided. Like I said there’s a wealth of information out there regarding the subject. You could also try to dispute my source instead of just dismissing it out of hand - like you did to u/Blacklazor.
Ahh, so you’ll trust media from the oppressors you agree with. So basically you’re a tankie equvalent of MAGA.
So you didn’t actually read anymore about the subject, right? Why am I not suprised.
Read the rest of that paragraph please. I’ll post it here to make it easy for you.
I.e. His family of four lived in a 20 sqm apartment (less than 9sqm per person) and would have to wait 20-30 years to get a “piss poor commie block apartment.” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to characterize “waiting 20-30 years” as “never.” Now if you’d read the sources I posted you’d see this aligns very closely with what is described - that being most people who weren’t rich or connected to an oligarch had to wait more than 10 years for an apartment. I even found a source that broke it down into a nice and helpful chart - see if you can find that source yourself.
I mean, I know you won’t becuase this hands your ass to your arguement on a sliver platter with a side of trimmings, and if there’s one thing people like you can’t stand it’s being proved wrong, bu whatever.
Except in real life it wasn’t, what u/blacklazor described aligns pretty well with the accounts on both pages, and other sources you will find if you just quit being lazy and put in the effort.
Skipping the rest of the bullshit you posted for my own mental health. There is a wealth of information that you can get with a few simple googles, please read up and stop embarassing yourself.
No, literally this was from their very first comment.
Again, random internet users are not a credible source. Pointing that fact out is disputing your source. Don’t they teach you this in school?
YOU posted the source! If I had rejected it, you’d be attacking me for blindly dismissing anything that contradicts my worldview! Damned if I do, damned if I don’t, there’s no winning with you.
I literally called attention to the fact that your source is Russian state media, and that you can “say what you will about it,” to indicate that it’s not fully trustworthy. Were you even aware it was affiliated with the Russian government?
That’s not what he said at all. The 20 sqm apartment was the “piss poor commie block apartment” that one would have to wait 20-30 years for.
I did read your sources, and they in fact said that most people had to wait 6-7 years:
“On average, the waiting time to receive an apartment from the state in the USSR was around six to seven years.”
In fact, you got it backwards. The part about “over 10 years” is about public sector employees. Even then, 10 is significantly less that “20-30,” but I suppose they didn’t teach you that either.
Lmao, your source saying 6-7 years in contrast to the claim of 20-30 “hands my ass to my argument on a silver platter with a side of trimmings?” Is there any number that would lead you to admit you’re wrong? What would it have to be, 3 years? 1 year? A week? Apparently it can be off by a factor of 5, and you’ll still treat it as some kind of smoking gun that proves I won’t accept being proven wrong.
The projection is truly off the scales.
The fact that you posted these right next to each other 😆
Whatever son. It’s a free country, so go with whatever bullshit you want. The evidence backs up u/Blacklazor and not you, I love how you just can’t handle it.
I would also like to point out the parts of his comments that you didn’t dispute or don’t have a probem with, such as his father “needed to get a permit to leave the country,” or that food was “rationed, not subsidized,” or the fact that in order to get housing, one must get on a list and wait multiple years in the first place. I mean, yeah that sure does sound like a great place to live.
But please, go do the work and read up on the subject, because you’re wrong on pretty much all of your points above. Like this one:
Nope. If you would’ve actually done the research, you’d have seen that one is usually given a bed in a dormatory, then must get on a waiting list for a “piss poor commie block apartment.” The tiny apartment where a family of four is squeezed into 20sqm is after they waited multiple years. This is if they were lucky enough to get an apartment they didn’t have to share with multiple other families.
Now please put in the effort and read up on it, because you’re really misinformed.
The evidence you presented points to 6-7, not 20-30. I don’t know how else to say it, you’re just objectively wrong by a factor of 3-5 by your own source, and no amount of pretending otherwise will change that fact.
See, this is the problem. Nowhere did I actually claim that the USSR was some kind of perfect utopia. You just assigned those positions to me because you decided I’m a “tankie” so I must believe that, instead of listening to what I actually say. Attacking me over claims I didn’t make is the definition of a strawman.
This, again, is not how it works. If you “actually did the research” then show me the evidence. You can’t just allude vaguely to some claim you found somewhere, especially since the sources you’ve cited so far, a random Quora user and Russian state media you didn’t realize was Russian state media, don’t exactly fill me with confidence regarding your investigative standards.
It just blows my mind how hypocritical you can be, you found evidence that clearly proves you wrong and you keep projecting on to me that I won’t change my mind in the light of evidence that I’m right.
6-7 is less than 20-30. That’s really all that needs to be said. You just can’t accept that basic mathematical fact because you’re an ideologue.
No, I think you refuse to do the research on this subject because you’re the actual ideologue here. You have an emotional stake in somehow proving that the USSR wasn’t a totalitarian inept impoverished wasteland, and actually learning what life was like under that system would destroy your worldview.
I’m the only one of us capable of acknowledging that 7 is a smaller number than 20. If understanding elementary school level math makes me an ideologue, a tankie, whatever else, then so be it. Nothing you say changes those numbers.
What’s more important, what you want to believe or what really happened?
Read up on the subject please.
Tell me, was “what really happened” 6-7 years or 20-30 years? Can you answer that one question?
You’re the one rejecting the evidence in favor of what you want to believe.
It was more than 10 years for most people, and up to 20 years or more.
Which you would’ve known if you’d bothered to do the reading.