This defeats the entire purpose of me having android
Like I’m just going to switch to an iPhone now. Not because Apple is any better, but because I have more family with them.
They took away our SD cards, they took away our removable batteries, they took away our headphone jacks. Now they’re taking away side loading apps, and that’s it. I’m done. The death of android.
Removable batteries are coming back, as they become mandatory in the EU in 2027.
Or you can already get one with a Fairphone (which also has SD card slot).
As for the headphone jack, I’m afraid it won’t come back. Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days (I got both, so I know from experience), and good adapters (like Apple one) are barely more than $10.Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days
Disputable.
- they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
- they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
- bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
- transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
I liked the whole not having to charge headphones thing more than anything.
I liked being able to accidentally brush up against my headphones or putting them down for a moment without them turning off my music.
i’m a musician, have a trained ear and even with mild tinnitus have yet to see any BT audio transmission that matches the fidelity of cables.
Missed a few things.
- They are cable-less, thus they use a battery and have a shorter lifespan
- The batteries they use are generally not user replaceable so they turn into e-waste rather quickly
- Due to the reduced bluetooth bandwidth, call quality is crap
- Sound quality is worse than a wired headphone that costs the same
BT 6.1 introduced Randomized RPA (Resolvable Private Address) which should help with some of the security issues. That said I wouldn’t expect to see headphones implementing 6.1 for quite some time. It just came out in May.
they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
Not a major drawback, IMO.
they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
True, but I haven’t lost any in the something like 6 years I’ve been using them.
bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
What’s your threat model? Who’s going to be attacking your security via your headphones? What happens if they succeed?
IMO this is a pretty ridiculous drawback, it’s like saying “wired headphones are worse because the wire can be used as a garrote”, which is true, but not an actual drawback for 99.999% of people.
transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
So what?
IMO the drawbacks of wired headphones are:
- The cable often gets tangled, and it’s a pain in the ass to untangle it
- The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
- The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
- Even when the cable isn’t tangled, just arranging the wire so it’s out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
- Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it’s out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
- Because of the wire, you’re limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that’s more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you’re listening to.
- If you’re doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can’t put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you’re moving to the sink to wash them off.
- In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that’s convenient.
The headphone wire is a potential personal security vulnerability as a ninja can use it to garrote you.
The drawbacks for a wireless headset are:
- They tend to have batteries that can’t be replaced, so eventually they lose their ability to hold a charge and need to be replaced. It can get really annoying to use them when the batteries are starting to fail and they hold less than an hour of charge.
- They tend to be much more expensive than wired headphones.
- Wireless buds are easier to lose, and easier to drop. If you drop them they can bounce and roll under things, or into the street or who knows where.
- They do eventually run out of charge, and you do have to charge them, and sometimes they can be low on charge / out of charge when you want to use them.
- There’s a fair amount of lag, which can be annoying when you’re trying to skip commercials on podcasts and so-on.
First of all, you’re forgetting that the actual problem is that the headphone jack does not require you remove bluetooth from the device. The issue here is giving user less options and more costly “solutions”.
The cable often gets tangled, and it’s a pain in the ass to untangle it
Git gud. It’s not that hard to roll up the cable so that it doesn’t tangle. Worst case scenario, you can buy a small case.
The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
Use headphones with a replaceable wire. That way you can use a cable with or without a mic or use different lentghs. Hell, you can even make your own and they’re cheap. Even if the wire isn’t easily replaceable, most headphones can be fixed with a bit of patience and a soldering iron.
Even when the cable isn’t tangled, just arranging the wire so it’s out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
You’re just doing mental gymnastics at this point.
Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it’s out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
Or you can, I don’t know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
Because of the wire, you’re limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that’s more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you’re listening to.
Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin’.
If you’re doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can’t put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you’re moving to the sink to wash them off.
My man, are you allergic to speakers? You’re cooking in a kitchen. Lose the headphones.
In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that’s convenient.
Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won’t have this “”“problem”“”.
Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
New problem created. Now when you want to take your phone out of your pocket to take a picture of something or scan it for an NFT sale you can’t do that easily because you have this wire running through your shirt connecting your phone to your headphones. Also, if it’s winter, now your phone has to go in an inner pocket not an outer one so you can’t easily access it anymore.
Or you can, I don’t know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
And start blasting whatever you’re listening to to the whole world? Well, you could pause what you’re listening to first. Don’t you see how this is much less convenient than wireless headphones where you don’t have to make all these compromises?
Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin’.
Ah, accept a less convenient alternative because of the limitations of the wires. Sure, sounds great.
My man, are you allergic to speakers? You’re cooking in a kitchen.
You’re cooking in a kitchen. There are loud fans, loud kettles. Why would you use a speaker that you have to turn way up to blast over all that noise? What’s wrong with you. Use headphones, you’re in a kitchen!
Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won’t have this “”“problem”“”.
Now you have the other problems with your phone being inside an inner pocket and not easily accessible for doing things like taking pictures or doing NFT transactions. You really haven’t thought this through, have you?
You’re like one of those people from infomercials who is unrealistically bad at simple low-skill activities
Now when you want to take your phone out of your pocket to take a picture of something or scan it for an NFT sale you can’t do that easily
Sure you can. Just unplug the headphones.
And start blasting whatever you’re listening to to the whole world?
You’re either trolling or you’ve never used wired headphones. Playback stops automatically when you unplug a wired headphone. It’s the same thing when you disconnect a bluetooth headphone.
You’re cooking in a kitchen. There are loud fans, loud kettles. Why would you use a speaker that you have to turn way up to blast over all that noise?
Wtf? Lol. If you’re kitchen is that loud, something’s wrong with it.
or doing NFT transactions. You really haven’t thought this through, have you?
Yeah, you’re either trolling or a very special kind of person.
- they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
I’ll give you that, but my bone conduction headset lasts a few days with the amount I use
- they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
Meh. I’ve put corded earbuds in my pocket and probably worn them out faster that way. Bluetooth headsets I tend to leave on (much to my wife’s annoyance) and that makes them last longer in my experience.
- bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
Aha, that van outside must be tapping into me listening to The Dandy Warhols! I knew it! (In all seriousness, if security is that critical you probably shouldn’t be doing whatever it is over WiFi, which is pretty much unavoidable with a phone)
- transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
Are we really talking about saving energy here? That’s like… Moisture in the bucket levels. Not even a drop in the bucket
I agree with you, even if you are downvoted. I’ve wrecked more in-ear buds by (non-replaceable) broken cable than i can count, while i’m on my 3rd bluetooth headphone in about 10 years - i lost none of them, and the second one is still around as backup.
The security is a thing that can be patched if it pops up and is only an issue if your OPSEC differs strongly from the common citizen, and the energy argument comes across like a purity test - the light in my fridge probably uses more energy.
I would never go back to cable, especially since noise cancelling doesn’t work without a battery anyway - and i am very unhappy without noise cancelling.
Also, i have a power bank where i can use 21600 Li-ion Battery cells as power source (and it doubles as charger for those cells) - on travels i take a few batteries with me, and even if i find myself for weeks without power, i will have it whenever i need it.
they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separatel
If you wish for ANC you’ll need a battery anyway, and most people do want ANC these days
they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
I’m loosing my wired headphone far more often, for a simple reason: wireless ones having a battery allows me to make them beep, given they are near, of course.
bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
Sure, and so are wired headphone as they act as an antenna, broadcasting to anyone with an appropriate receptor anything you say and/or hear.
As for the implementation vulnerabilities, at least it can be patched.transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
Sure, but is it that much of a problem? It would take years (if not decades) of constant listening to even use a dollar of electricity for wireless headphones. Even if you factor the data transmission from the phone into that.
And wired headphone are not energy neutral either. They works by pulling energy from the phone battery.I prefer the wireless headphones ease of use to headphone I have to untangle every time I want to use them. I keep my wired ones for home uses.
You can have both or you can deny people who like wired. You are choosing denial.
Those who like wired aren’t out of option either. Adapters exists, are cheap, and have often a far better audio quality than integrated ports due to not being as size constrained as the main body itself, and being further from interferences. You can quite easily find some that allows to charge your phone at the same time (even if the usb-c norm do not allows it on paper).
Phones that run Linux and have a headphone jack:
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
Hmmm. Then I would need to figure out how my authenticators would work. I have like 3 different ones for a total of like 18 accounts. It’s annoying as all hell
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
or 2027. Or some Chinese variant of android on Chinese/Taiwan phone that allows sideloading, perhaps with alternate playstore and maps. I don’t yet understand how draconian this actually gets implemented, but death of android/google (to me) is possible. If hardware is good enough, then android emulator will be fine for legacy apps.
No, bluetooth is not better. Bluetooth has latency which is bad for anything that needs realtime audio, like video games or any kind of live performance. It also runs on 2.4 like every other electronic Wireless devices making it prone to interference. And it’s yet another device to keep charged all the time.
USB C is also inferior because you need dongles which increase complexity of your setup, it’s more prone to failures. Like audio cutting off every x minutes because connection is just slightly loose or other electronic gremlins. I’m saying this having just had a gig and the MD’s phone we relied on for the metronome started acting up during the performance not recognizing the dongle until a reboot.
Audio jacks were simple, analog, worked perfectly fine and delivered high quality audio. What we have now is overengineered slop that is less reliable and more expensive.
Bluetooth is better than…it used to be? Because I promise you there is no earbud on planet earth better than my open back cans.
I still have a headphone jack. Rare but Androids with them exist if you go out of the mainstream bullshit.
I have a fp4 and it is VERY annoying to not have jack(I don’t wanna use bluetooth because jack works, doesn’t need a battery and is low tech), so now I only listen to music on my computer, but I’m planning on making an mp3 player with a raspberry pi pico.
Fairphone is too big, i don’t want a phablet in my pocket
The removable batteries coming back would also impact the iPhone, which actually respects user privacy because Apple is not a marketing company. Apple is a products and services company, they sell tech devices and make a lot of money on services like Apple Music and TV+ and such. It’s expensive for a reason; you can even take the encryption keys out of Apple’s hands for iCloud so you genuinely are fully protected
So what if Bluetooth are “better”?
Still no reason to not have both.
The Apple adapter is very good. I used one on my Linux machine that had a finicky built in port. Obviously works great on a phone. If you need one in a car at least MagSafe/qi is available now but not ideal.
I don’t love the idea of “removable” batteries being mandated if that means like the batteries in an old flip phone. We needed them then because the capacity was so bad and power banks didn’t exist. I would prefer that manufacturers require them to be third party replaceable instead.
They have to be user removable, not hot-removable. Take a FP6 as an example, you have to remove a couple of screw to get to it, then another couple to remove it. What are forbidden will be glued batteries and back panels.
That’s convenient to swap a battery but I feel like my phone is more likely to get soaked than need a battery swap at any time in the next two years. The FP6 is IP55 rated.
Looks like FP6 battery is £45 and iPhone 14 is £60-£90 depending where you buy it. I know I can get that done in the next hour or two where I live, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
The replaceable camera feature is more compelling because a broken front iPhone camera can effectively brick the device.
A replaceable usb-c port is great too. My previous Nokia 8.1 died because of that, and my previous FP5 needed a replacement after 2 years of use.
But I agree that Fairphone have work to do on waterproofing their phones. It was hard with the previous hand removable back panel, but now that they added screws to the back panel, it wouldn’t be that much of a a stretch to add some o-rings to further waterproof it. I’m sure they could get it to IP66 rather easily, maybe IP67 with a little more work.
Tbf, you can a very cheap android phone for around $100 USD, the cheapest iPhone starts at around
$400(edit: Actually I got curious and looked it up, apparantly the iPhone SE is gone and the cheapest new iPhone right now seems to be the 16e which start at $600). Also, Apple developer account cost $99 per year, Google developer account cost $25 one time fee, so the cost is gonna trickle down to the user, sometimes you find free apps on google play and then you look at apple and it cost a few dollars, its most likely due to the recurring costs to maintain a developer account.Also, Apple doesn’t allow torrent clients, You can’t use firefox with ublock origin on iOS.
(But then again, these advantages could also go away in a few years… 👀)
Orion sorta lets you use Firefox addons. I use the built in adblocker it has tho.
Friend you can buy a much cheaper android phone, which is why I don’t really care much about this, though it is still obviously bad. I hate my phone, I hate cellphones in general, they’re shitty feature locked mini laptops with a subscription so I can, what, make and receive 12 phonecalls a month? Download half a gb when I’m out of wifi range? Use google maps, the literally only truly useful thing my cellphone does for me?
Anyway, because of my disdain I buy the absolute cheapest cellphone on the market that has no attached plan, once every three or four years. I got a new one last month.
It cost thirty bucks. My monthly unlimited talk and text and data plan comes to about 22$ a month.
It’s a piece of shit, obviously. But if all you’re doing is begrudgingly using it to make a couple calls, send some texts, scroll Lemmy while you’re pooping and occasionally use a map the price is appropriate.
I just get a flipphone, and try to build some portable computing device from a Raspberry Pi CM, even if they made it 5V, for “industrial purposes” (read: likely some industry people wanted to stop people from building their own portable devices), which is less ideal for battery operation.
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Their arguments are kind of lame. To install APKs from outside the store is already an involved process that generally makes it harder for the uninformed to sideload. Make sideloading a bit harder, but possible. My xiaomi makes me wait and read warnings before installing APKs, for example.
Side loading will still be possible but the apps themselves will need to be signed by the developer through Google, so Google ultimately still controls what can be installed. Maybe someone will crack it.
[Installing software] will still be possible but the apps themselves will need to be signed by the developer through Google, so Google ultimately still controls what can be installed. Maybe someone will crack it.
Fixed that for you :-)
It’s a great way to workaround them being forced to open the ecosystem a little and allowing alternative stores and that stuff. It only took more than a decade, they obviously not happy about it, so gotta screw people in another way.
“Uugfhh, but the users don’t read the warnings!! They just click yes until it works!!”
And that’s my problem because??? For fucks sake
I know it’s not really ready for it yet, but I guess I’m gonna be looking into a Linux phone before I thought I would.
My main problem with linux phones is that many apps only exist only for android or ios.
Sure some apps are basically a website that you can acess by web browser but many apps cant be replaced able (banking, tickets, public transport, games)
My main problem with the current crop of Linux phones is, or at least it’s my impression - is that they still struggle with the basic phone part. As in network connectivity (at least in the US), making and receiving calls, SMS & MMS, and VoLTE support. If there’s a Linux phone where that stuff is solid and works, I’d buy one. I don’t really care about the whole app ecosystem - I barely have any apps on my Android phone now.
Waydroid works really well to run Android apps on mobile Linux, even for games. Doesn’t help for banking apps though as they’ll usually lock you out due to not passing Google safety checks.
I’ll give it a try. I only have like two Android apps I really do need. And what do I have to lose but my shackles, right?
Isn’t Waydroid shady?
Most Android apps can be run under a mini-VM in the Linux systems I’ve tried - but some apps won’t function well that way (banking, NFC tickets, etc)
I think I’d be willing to let go of the handful of things that are exclusive, given that I could probably do more with a proper Linux system. It’s the basic phone functionality (as others have mentioned) that keeps me from switching.
Wait, Linux phones are a thing? How do they get the market share to compete with the big tech?
That’t the neat part, they don’t. They’re still very niche
I thought so too, but over the years I have migrated so much of my life away from apps in order to see if it’s possible and apart from games I find that with a browser and an email client I don’t really need apps. Still use apps though, they are way more convenient.
Banking is tedious without apps, but works with browser and an MFA-dongle in my country.
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This is about Revanced, isn’t it? They failed to kill it via the YouTube backend so now it’s down to lock down the os and browsers as much as possible to keep feeding people the juicy ads.
I readily await the visibility and interest this will give mobile linux development.
Nearly 100% of the development for handheld Linux is Steam OS / Steam Deck. If Valve moves to ARM at some point then you might see useful improvements that benefit the mobile use case.
the collaborative world works off of demand. Pocket laptops and linux phones have been a nice distraction for long enough. They may soon become more of a saving grace.
I’m not saying you’ll be able to run Spyware Simulator 2000 on PostmarketOS. I’m more saying that any secondary device you use for foss software will be more focused upon as an actual decent alternative for getting work done without being spied on by capitalist nazis.
These devices can run web browsers. That’s 80% of your needs already taken care of and we haven’t even left Firefox.
CARRY TWO PHONES??!!
What will the neighbors think!?
It seems like fewer people care about being spied on, “I have nothing to hide”, and many people don’t even change the settings to prevent sharing contacts, photos, and location with privacy hostile apps like Facebook.
My shitty country cant use those anyway.
What is blocking it? I haven’t done much research yet but was hoping to find a new OS if this goes through. Wouldn’t it be the same as putting a sim card into a tablet/laptop? Or is there something specific to your country that stands out?
Probably they need to pay for an IMEI fee their government wants. I know because it’s the same here. I got PinePhone for $200 and had to pay for $250 IMEI fee. What did I do? Changed the IMEI to my old dead phone’s.
Nice, that makes sense. Doesn’t is store more data than just an IMEI number though, like make/model, did you have to spoof that as well or was that easily ignored
Normally, yes. As for my government concerns, I’m using Nexus 5X. They probably would notice if they investigate but as long as there are no more than 1 active phones with the same IMEI, they most likely won’t notice.
Look up Australia’s whitelisting system.
If you phone isn’t manually approved, it won’t be able to connect to a cell tower, not even for emergency calls.
not even for emergency calls.
That’s wild.
What the hell
If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can’t install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn’t I go with Apple?
Openness isn’t just a nice to have. It is essential.
The difference between general purpose computing and gatekept walled garden computing is night and day.
Identifying the devs is not in the “need to know” for Google. Google sells or helps to sell a general purpose open device where it is on us to exploit that device however we will.
Now Google wants to switch to a walled garden, moderated development model.
If Google promises it won’t use those dev IDs to moderate development, their promise is only worth the wind it moves and the sound it makes.
You might say their words are like farts in the wind
We don’t even need to assume: https://torrentfreak.com/apple-revokes-eu-distribution-rights-for-torrent-client-developer-left-in-the-dark/
now while at first view, your sentiment is understandable, i actually kinda differ.
when you buy any product at any store, i believe that there has to be a legal entity behind the store that sells you this product, and the legal entity needs to be identifiable. i.e. if you run a shop and give packages to people, you need to show ID to open up that shop. i believe it is the same for charity organizations which give away packages for free.
now, why would it be different for apps? apps are software packages, and if they’re given away, there should be a legal entity behind it that is identifiable. this isn’t to surveil or suppress people, it’s just how business has always been done, and for good reason so. businesses need legal representatives to operate, even if it’s a charity, because otherwise there’s nobody to “talk to” when there’s issues, and also imposters would have an easy game.
that doesn’t mean that you can’t donate packages away on the streets. just put it in front of your front door and wait until somebody passes by and takes it, or give it directly into the hands of your friends, you don’t need to open a business for that. just, if you do it regularly, interacting with people you don’t personally know, there is a legal entity that represents that recurring activity, like a business or charity.
If i understand it correctly, even with the new changes, what can be done is that open software distribution sites like F-Droid can sign the packages instead of the original developers and therefore circumvent the identification of the original developers, and also you can still install unsigned third-party apps if you enter a command on the command line to disable ID certificate checking. it’s just an extra step, not a block-all.
This change requires you to attach your real name when publishing software. That’s all. You can still publish to and install packages from anywhere. This doesn’t come close to Apple’s complete control.
Google already scans packages you’re installing for malware and alerts you and allows you to install them anyway. This gives that scanner one more tool to identify bad actors.
This is the risk of “trusted computing” architectures. Who is governing the “trusted” part of that.
These cryptographic signatures are not as much of a death knell for Android as some would have you believe. The trick is to get a common code signing cert into your device, that is then used to sign any third party APK you want to run. You can avoid the Google tax this way. I assume that’s how most sideloading sites and apps are going to handle this.
The question is, how do you add that certificate? Is it easy and straight forward (with plenty of scary warnings), as a user? Or is it going to be a developer options deal? Or will I need root to add the cert?
I’m not sure what that answer is right now.
I just want to finish this post with a few words about trusted computing models. Plainly: Apple has been doing this for years … That’s why you download basically everything from an app store with Apple. Whether on your Mac OS device, your iPhone, iPad or whatever iDevice… Whether the devs need to sign it, or the app gets signed when it lands on the store, there’s a signature to ensure that the app hasn’t been tampered with and that Apple has given the app it’s security blessings, that it is safe to run. Microsoft and Google have both been climbing towards the same forever. Apple embedded their root of trust in their own proprietary TPM which has been included with every Mac, and iDevice for a long ass time. Google also has a TPM, the Titan security module, I believe that was introduced around pixel 3? Or 4?.. Microsoft made huge waves requiring it for Windows 11, and we all know what that discussion looks like. Apple requires a TPM (which they supply, so nobody noticed), Google has been adding a TPM and TPM functionality to their phones for years, and now Windows is the same. None of this is a bad thing. Trusted computing can eliminate much of the need for antivirus software, among other things. I digress. We’ve been going this way for a long time. Google is just more or less, doing what Apple has already done, and what Microsoft will very likely do very soon, making it a requirement. Battlefield 6 I think, was one of the first to require trusted computing on Windows and it will, for damned sure, not be the last that does. The only real hurdle here is managing what is trusted. So far, each vendor has kept the keys to their own kingdoms, but this is contrary to computing concepts. Like the Internet, it should be able to be done without needing trust from a specific provider. That’s how SSL works, that’s how the Internet works, that’s how trusted computing should work. The only thing that should be secret is the private signing keys. What Google, Apple, and Microsoft should be doing, is issuing intermediary keys that can sign code signing certs. So trusted institutions that create apps, like… Idk, valve as an example, can create a signature key for steam and sign Steam with it, so the trust goes from MS root to intermediary key for valve, to steam code signing key, and suddenly you have an app that’s trusted. Valve can then use their key to sign software on their store that may not have a coffee signing key of it’s own. This is just one example based on Windows. And above all of this, the user should be able to import a trusted code signing cert, or an intermediary cert signing cert, to their service as trusted.
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
You’re pissed about it? Visit here: https://opencollective.com/postmarketOS
IMHO that’s our best shot. Totally Google free, mainstream Linux kernel.
Don’t worry as the current OEMs continue to lock down bootloaders and lock required drivers behind copyright and other restrictive licensing schemes they will ensure nice things like PostmarketOS at best remain fringe and never able to replace modern phones for daily usage.
Most of they will but hopefully we will still have projects like PinePhone or Fairphone that will support it.
Does this also work with android tablets? Or is there a separate os for those?
Here you can see current state: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
In theory it will just be another Linux able to run on everything Linux supports + Android hardware. Honestly I don’t know if it will ever run on common modern phones but it should at least be possible to run it on more “open” phones like Fairphone or PinePhone.
These are the most supported devices, maintained by at least 2 people and have the functions you expect from the device running its normal OS, such as calling on a phone, working audio, and a functional UI.
If the above is where we are at still with PostmarketOS, it will be a decade or more before it is anything more than a curiosity. The table stakes of what people, even us tech nerds, expect from a smartphone fit for daily use is so much more than “it can make phones calls and the UI works” it is not even funny.
Can you just refuse to upgrade your 2021 or previous (nothing on their device list applies to models released after 2021) to not be affected by this policy change? I have never noticed a useful feature in android version upgrades for quite a while now.
just installed lineageos with root because of this, so thanks Google i guess
how is it so far?
I think I am just done with the whole concept of the convenient prepackaged tech product, and especially staying “connected” with them.
For example, I stopped wearing a smart watch this summer and it’s been a positive. I was the type to wear it 23 hours a day and track my sleep with it and everything. It turns out that not instantly seeing every notification or knowing the exact minute of the day are not a big deal, sans are even good for me.
Part of what I’ve also done is use my phone a lot less and my linux desktop a lot more. I use it as a mobile communication device and not my computer for everything. I guess the next time I need to replace it I’ll either get an iphone since everybody in my family has one, or I’ll see where these wonderful Linux phone projects end up.
I’m wearing my smartwatch as a wristwatch. All notifications are off, but I see the temperature, UV index, step and calorie counters, which is nice. And if I ever want to review my sleep data, pulse, sPO2 saturation and location history, I got it available just in case. And for the very rare case that my phone is charging and I want to access messages from another room, I can do that manually.
In all fairness to smart watches, mine is what turned me on to regularly checking the UV index. That’s an important thing for all people, but especially me because I have an increased skin cancer risk due to unrelated medical stuff. And it was extra-extra important this year because I have done a ton of good work outside this summer.
And to be more specific about my watch situation, there’s more going on than just avoiding notifications. I have been minimizing the amount of stuff I keep on my person in general, right down to finally getting my wedding ring tattooed on this year. There are various reasons ranging from abstract introspective life improvement stuff to the practical where that outside work I mentioned was constant and pretty rough on anything on my hands/arms.
So even if I wore a nice mechanical watch, I’d probably still be going with the double bare wrists right now.
In all fairness to smart watches, mine is what turned me on to regularly checking the UV index.
Can’t you just do that on your phone? Surely if the UV is high, you just plan accordingly for the day? Sunscreen, wide brim hat, stick to the shade where possible, etc. I can’t imagine what benefit constantly checking the UV on your watch gives you. Even if it did happen to fluctuate for some reason, you would be wasting so much time constantly ducking in and out depending on what your watch says at any given moment.
Yeah you are absolutely right. I do just check it on my phone or PC now.
But having it constantly visible for the months or years I had it on my watch face etched the habit into my ADHD brain. It also gave me a feel for how weather and time of day affect it. But not in a way where I try to vibe measure the UV index. It reminds me to check the weather data. :)
How does this affect “second-party” apps (i.e. apps you have created yourself)? Are you still allowed to go to Android studio, make an APK, transfer it to your own phone, and install that app? If no, this spells the death of experimental indie developers on Android.
They might copy from apple. 3 apps with a self signed cert that needs to be renewed every week…
So yeah we’ll do a decentralized Linux phone of sorts, if Google is going full 3rd Reich with Android we’ll move to a Linux based OS phone.
Simple as that.
(non-Android) Linux phones aren’t really ready for daily driving even for relatively advanced users - but it looks like we’re gonna have to deal with it anyhow
Not sure I actually want a linux phone. Not sure I want a smart phone at all anymore.
I think digital convergence probably went as far as it needed then kept going. Not sure how we went from nokia candybars and palm pilots to having a an always on camera, microphone, location and wifi sensor controlled by foreign advertising companies in our pockets but I think I am over it.
from nokia candybars and palm pilots to having a an always on camera, microphone, location and wifi sensor controlled by foreign advertising companies
We could build things with all that tech outside of those group’s control. That’s what brought you here to the Fediverse isn’t it?
For example I like Smart Home stuff. I’ve got dozens of devices I can control through my phone or automations etc around my house. My lights even. But I only like it because I control it thanks to FOSS stuff like Home Assistant. It’s local. Not reliant on external servers and works exactly how I like. If you bought cheap-o wifi gadgets that all rely on 20 different apps you’d have a really shitty experience and all your data harvested and your lights not turning on because whatever company shut down.
We can take control of phone tech in a similar way. Unfortunately I doubt we will as a whole but I think it may be possible for the more technically minded to carve out a small niche in the hellscape.
Yes, in a way it’s like linux more than a decade ago. Kinda fun tbh, looking forward to giving it a try.
Its like Microsoft and Google are teaming up to drive me closer to Linux.
Yes, learn the truth and be enlightened. Both Microsoft and Google have been secretly scheming for a while now, with the sole intent to get girthero closer to Linux
Will this kill FDroid ? I imagine yes since you have to install it from a download.
I haven’t watched the video — I would generally rather have text form content — but if Rossman is announcing the same thing that I just read about elsewhere, it’s not a removal of sideloading. It requires that a developer register and provide Google with personal information for Google to let them create packages. Assuming that Google is willing to let the F-Droid developers register an account (which I assume they have) and sign the F-Droid package, it should not restrict installation of the F-Droid package.
However, you wouldn’t be able to use F-Droid to install any packages that didn’t conform to Google’s new requirements.
I doubt that the restriction is at the store app level, but at the package installation level. That is, I would expect that the F-Droid or Google’s store app or whatever says “install this package” and the OS refuses.
https://developer.android.com/developer-verification
Starting in September 2026, Android will require all apps to be registered by verified developers in order to be installed on certified Android devices.
Step 1
Verify your identity
You will need to provide and verify your personal details, like your legal name, address, email address, and phone number.
If you’re registering as an organization, you’ll also need to provide a D-U-N-S number and verify your organization’s website.
You may also need to upload official government ID.
Step 2
Register your apps
You’ll need to prove you own your apps by providing your app package name and app signing keys.
And especially any youtube app that blocks ads. OF COURSE Google will never allow Newpipe, Revanced, FreeTube and so on to be installed on Android phones ever again.
I have no idea if this shit is coming to android tv, but i turned updates off just in case as I use SmartTube Next on it to watch ad free youtube. Ugh. Fuck google.
You can use F-Droid and other install sources on alternative ROMs.
