Yes, yes. Higher taxes are the death sentence for every economy. /s
Strangely enough we had our “Wirtschaftswunder” when especially the wealth tax was way higher.
The death of “the economy” was also foretold when minimum wage was introduced and everytime it was raised, but as the good Dr. Malcolm said: Life the economy finds a way.
The “Wirtschaftswunder” mostly happened, because the Americans saved Germany from starvation after WW2, German industry was hardly damaged during the war(but the transport system was, but that got repaired) and then because of the common market and lack of USD, which made Europeans buy German rather then American.
It was pretty much bound to happen and the only thing Germany did right, was the EU part. The rest was mainly bad managed horribly and German workers were and still are underpaid. Hence you see the massive net exports out of Germany.
Well, for something like the Wirtschaftswunder, it is really hard to pinpoint a single “reason”, but arguably the Lastenausgleichsgesetz played a huge role. It was a massive redistribution of wealth (nowadays shunned as a so-called “social benefit program”, funnily enough it was specifically to subsidize refugees). With that, a wealth tax and crazy high income tax and higher business taxation, the government spending ratio went through the roof. Add to that, that poor people (read: the refugees from the Eastern areas) could (and needed to, as they lost everything) consume a lot more, et voila, Wirtschaftswunder. Easy recipe, which could just be repeated today. When the wealth would be moving again, the economy would explode again. But, alas, the majority does not have the money to consume, and the wealthy hoard the wealth instead of consuming. If we only could change that somehow.
In West Germany there never was an actually working redistribution of wealth after WW2. The rich families of the Nazi Germany kept their wealth and still have it today. Yes taxes were higher for them, but not even close to high enough. The Lastenausgleichsgesetz really did hit the middle class, who owned property. It did not hit the real capitalist class.
Or when we had one at all. Getting rid of it was a betrayal to the people and really cemented the overall stagnation of our economy. It’s of course no surprise to the average Lemmy user that the opposite of what right wing conservatives say is true. These “christian” “democrats” have it all backwards as usual.
I think it’s not even unconstitutional - they have chosen not to enforce it because “it’s ToO DiFfIcUlT To cAlCuLaTe and To eVaLuAtE” the correct wealth and an according tax share.
Offiziell wurde die Vermögenssteuer 1997 nicht abgeschafft, sondern nur “ausgesetzt”. Hintergrund war eine Entscheidung aus Karlsruhe von 1995: Damals kritisierte das Bundesverfassungsgericht, die Besitzer von Immobilien würden zu wenig Steuern zahlen. Das Vermögenssteuergesetz müsse überarbeitet werden, so die Richter. Daraufhin argumentierte die damalige Bundesregierung von CDU/CSU und FDP, eine Gesetzesreform sei viel zu kompliziert.
Deshalb wurde die Vermögenssteuer nicht überarbeitet - sondern komplett ausgesetzt.
If i remember correctly the issue with the estimation of the value of houses and land was, that it was done based on 1918 and 1930 or so baseline values that then were adjusted over the years, but the underlying structure, which areas are expensive, which are cheap, what infrastructure is available… was never changed.
So because of systematically undervaluing property to benefit rich people, the wealth tax was stopped because the court found that it is unjust by undervaluing property.
Germany is a Banana Republic which affords more professors to devise ways in which to claim the contrary.
From USA we have very clear indicators that lower taxes hurt the economy more.
When Bush reduced taxes the economy went down, When Obama increased them the economy went up, when Trump reduced them the economy went down, when Biden increased them the economy recovered. Now Trump has reduced taxes with an insane amount, and USA is on their way to recession!
There probably is some sort of ideal balance, but what that is we don’t really know. For now it seems that higher taxes generally are better for the economy. Just look at Denmark, often claimed to have the highest taxes of the world, and their economy has been absolutely stellar for decades.
Even as one of the hardest hit by COVID early on, they spend massive resources curbing both the spread and economic effects of COVID, money covered almost entirely by taxes, and they came out basically on top of everybody else at the other end!
Taxes spend on improving conditions for the population, actually help the economy!
Taxes spend on improving conditions for the population, actually help the economy!
It seems like one of those things which should be obvious. Why are we doing this whole “economy” thing? Because people want stuff. But if people can’t buy stuff there is no reason to keep producing.
Yes, yes. Higher taxes are the death sentence for every economy. /s
Strangely enough we had our “Wirtschaftswunder” when especially the wealth tax was way higher.
The death of “the economy” was also foretold when minimum wage was introduced and everytime it was raised, but as the good Dr. Malcolm said:
Lifethe economy finds a way.The “Wirtschaftswunder” mostly happened, because the Americans saved Germany from starvation after WW2, German industry was hardly damaged during the war(but the transport system was, but that got repaired) and then because of the common market and lack of USD, which made Europeans buy German rather then American.
It was pretty much bound to happen and the only thing Germany did right, was the EU part. The rest was mainly bad managed horribly and German workers were and still are underpaid. Hence you see the massive net exports out of Germany.
Well, for something like the Wirtschaftswunder, it is really hard to pinpoint a single “reason”, but arguably the Lastenausgleichsgesetz played a huge role. It was a massive redistribution of wealth (nowadays shunned as a so-called “social benefit program”, funnily enough it was specifically to subsidize refugees). With that, a wealth tax and crazy high income tax and higher business taxation, the government spending ratio went through the roof. Add to that, that poor people (read: the refugees from the Eastern areas) could (and needed to, as they lost everything) consume a lot more, et voila, Wirtschaftswunder. Easy recipe, which could just be repeated today. When the wealth would be moving again, the economy would explode again. But, alas, the majority does not have the money to consume, and the wealthy hoard the wealth instead of consuming. If we only could change that somehow.
In West Germany there never was an actually working redistribution of wealth after WW2. The rich families of the Nazi Germany kept their wealth and still have it today. Yes taxes were higher for them, but not even close to high enough. The Lastenausgleichsgesetz really did hit the middle class, who owned property. It did not hit the real capitalist class.
Or when we had one at all. Getting rid of it was a betrayal to the people and really cemented the overall stagnation of our economy. It’s of course no surprise to the average Lemmy user that the opposite of what right wing conservatives say is true. These “christian” “democrats” have it all backwards as usual.
Technically, we still have a wealth tax. However, because the current implementation has been ruled as unconstitutional, it is not being collected.
I think it’s not even unconstitutional - they have chosen not to enforce it because “it’s ToO DiFfIcUlT To cAlCuLaTe and To eVaLuAtE” the correct wealth and an according tax share.
No, that’s the stated reason for not passing an updated tax law.
The current state of the tax was ruled unconstitutional in 1995 and subsequently the tax hasn’t been collected since 1997 (No English translation available).
I perceive it like not the wealth tax per se is unconstitutional. But it is not following the “Gleichheitsgrundsatz” But you may be right after all.
That’s exactly what I said:
A wealth tax is even required as per §104 (2) GG.
OK, I beg your pardon then. I misunderstood your point.
Offiziell wurde die Vermögenssteuer 1997 nicht abgeschafft, sondern nur “ausgesetzt”. Hintergrund war eine Entscheidung aus Karlsruhe von 1995: Damals kritisierte das Bundesverfassungsgericht, die Besitzer von Immobilien würden zu wenig Steuern zahlen. Das Vermögenssteuergesetz müsse überarbeitet werden, so die Richter. Daraufhin argumentierte die damalige Bundesregierung von CDU/CSU und FDP, eine Gesetzesreform sei viel zu kompliziert.
Deshalb wurde die Vermögenssteuer nicht überarbeitet - sondern komplett ausgesetzt.
ZDFheute
For extra absurdity:
If i remember correctly the issue with the estimation of the value of houses and land was, that it was done based on 1918 and 1930 or so baseline values that then were adjusted over the years, but the underlying structure, which areas are expensive, which are cheap, what infrastructure is available… was never changed.
So because of systematically undervaluing property to benefit rich people, the wealth tax was stopped because the court found that it is unjust by undervaluing property.
Germany is a Banana Republic which affords more professors to devise ways in which to claim the contrary.
If you think that I’m wrong, I’m happy to learn why.
From USA we have very clear indicators that lower taxes hurt the economy more.
When Bush reduced taxes the economy went down, When Obama increased them the economy went up, when Trump reduced them the economy went down, when Biden increased them the economy recovered. Now Trump has reduced taxes with an insane amount, and USA is on their way to recession!
There probably is some sort of ideal balance, but what that is we don’t really know. For now it seems that higher taxes generally are better for the economy. Just look at Denmark, often claimed to have the highest taxes of the world, and their economy has been absolutely stellar for decades.
Even as one of the hardest hit by COVID early on, they spend massive resources curbing both the spread and economic effects of COVID, money covered almost entirely by taxes, and they came out basically on top of everybody else at the other end!
Taxes spend on improving conditions for the population, actually help the economy!
It seems like one of those things which should be obvious. Why are we doing this whole “economy” thing? Because people want stuff. But if people can’t buy stuff there is no reason to keep producing.