Why is allowing vehicles running on alternative fuels that have 0 emmissions a bad thing? Why are we all hell bent on pursuing EVs, inisisting that’s the solution and just ignoring all their downsides?
Why is allowing vehicles running on alternative fuels that have 0 emmissions a bad thing?
They need many times the amount of renewable energy to make than just driving on electricity directly, they will not exist in sufficient quantities and be prohibitively expensive. Still, the former German government negotiated for an exception for e-fuels only cars and I’m pretty certain that will come so some more idiots can be tricked into buying one before they check the prices and availability for these fuels.
Why are we all hell bent on pursuing EVs,
We are not. New vehicles will not be allowed to emit CO2 (or be fined), that’s all.
Because alternative fuels are bullshit accounting and multilevel green washing. Any type of combustion motor takes more parts to build and wastes 60-75% of the input energy as heat. Most of what you put in your gas tank just makes wasted heat.
But I do think its complicated by distinction between where the energy comes from, how we get it, and how its stored.
We are largely pursuing electricity, which although imperfect, has the advantages:
inertia of electric cars
we already have an (imperfect) distribution system
the source of that power can be changed.
distribution & competition
Gas has huge market share in part due to the fact it has a huge distribution system in place. If we use hydrogen, or something else, then scaling up production, getting it where it needs to be, and having the right new/clean equipment to get it into your car all has to be worked out.
If we have multiple competing technologies, then the user base is fragmented, and its difficult to trust that you will reliably find energy for road trips outside your normal stomping ground.
We have electricity almost everywhere, and many modern cars can be charged slowly even via 120VAC. So IMO it is the most likely candidate to compete vs gas, but would be invigorated by minimizing competition to encourage scaling fast chargers as “the choice”.
source of power
Electricity & batteries are (and store) the energy used, but where the power comes from is a different matter. Some places may source it entirely from renewable energy, some may source it from coal, or gas, etc. With electricity as the medium, we can phase from non-renewable to renewable as we improve. The ability to not care where power came from is quite powerful. If you have an alternate fuel that is 0% emissions, the electric cars can also benefit from it. All of that can happen behind the scenes with end users none the wiser.
imperfect
Electricity is far from perfect. The grids are probably undersized for fullscale use. Conversion, tranamiasion, and storage of electricity leads to Significant losses. Cold temperature impacts the battery. Mining for batteries, battery disposal/renewal etc. There’s a lot wrong.
But it’s what we’ve got so far that seems like it has the potential to break the stranglehold that gas has, and would still allow for innovation in where the energy comes from.
Why is allowing vehicles running on alternative fuels that have 0 emmissions a bad thing? Why are we all hell bent on pursuing EVs, inisisting that’s the solution and just ignoring all their downsides?
What’s wrong with ignoring downsides? We’ve ignored CO₂ emissions of fossil fuels for decades.
@bob @Sunshine maybe because they don’t have zero emissions? They produce CO2, right?
Because there are no feasible alternative fuels that aren’t better used elsewhere.
They need many times the amount of renewable energy to make than just driving on electricity directly, they will not exist in sufficient quantities and be prohibitively expensive. Still, the former German government negotiated for an exception for e-fuels only cars and I’m pretty certain that will come so some more idiots can be tricked into buying one before they check the prices and availability for these fuels.
We are not. New vehicles will not be allowed to emit CO2 (or be fined), that’s all.
Nobody is.
Because alternative fuels are bullshit accounting and multilevel green washing. Any type of combustion motor takes more parts to build and wastes 60-75% of the input energy as heat. Most of what you put in your gas tank just makes wasted heat.
I don’t think innovation in the space is bad.
But I do think its complicated by distinction between where the energy comes from, how we get it, and how its stored.
We are largely pursuing electricity, which although imperfect, has the advantages:
distribution & competition
Gas has huge market share in part due to the fact it has a huge distribution system in place. If we use hydrogen, or something else, then scaling up production, getting it where it needs to be, and having the right new/clean equipment to get it into your car all has to be worked out.
If we have multiple competing technologies, then the user base is fragmented, and its difficult to trust that you will reliably find energy for road trips outside your normal stomping ground.
We have electricity almost everywhere, and many modern cars can be charged slowly even via 120VAC. So IMO it is the most likely candidate to compete vs gas, but would be invigorated by minimizing competition to encourage scaling fast chargers as “the choice”.
source of power
Electricity & batteries are (and store) the energy used, but where the power comes from is a different matter. Some places may source it entirely from renewable energy, some may source it from coal, or gas, etc. With electricity as the medium, we can phase from non-renewable to renewable as we improve. The ability to not care where power came from is quite powerful. If you have an alternate fuel that is 0% emissions, the electric cars can also benefit from it. All of that can happen behind the scenes with end users none the wiser.
imperfect
Electricity is far from perfect. The grids are probably undersized for fullscale use. Conversion, tranamiasion, and storage of electricity leads to Significant losses. Cold temperature impacts the battery. Mining for batteries, battery disposal/renewal etc. There’s a lot wrong.
But it’s what we’ve got so far that seems like it has the potential to break the stranglehold that gas has, and would still allow for innovation in where the energy comes from.