I came across a post requesting to remove Nutomic from the Lemmy devs due to a comment he made here. In it, he suggests that the ruling class promotes both LGBTQ+ rights and transphobia as a means to create division among the working class. I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this perspective. Do you agree or disagree with his viewpoint? What other topics do you believe are used to divide the working class? Let’s discuss!
It’s the working class’ fault. They divide themselves only because they fall for these arguments that x-topic is more important than class issues. The distractions the elite utilize are not sophisticated. We fall for them because we’re dumb.
My opinion is that it’s divisive.
LGBTQ rights are workers rights. We’re all in this together. The ones arguing against those rights, are the ones being divisive. Support for equal rights, should never be a question.
I do also understand where Nutomic is coming from, though. Using these issues to create that division is cynical politics, and that is a problem. But that should never be used as an excuse to drop the fight for equality.
The ones arguing against those rights, are the ones being divisive.
Lol. Very “no you” energy
Which you’ve deftly countered with ‘nuh uh’! Don’t have an actual argument against the actual ‘the people peddling divisive rhetoric are the actual problem’ argument?
I’d really love to hear how the people saying that all workers rights matter are the ones really being divisive here, rather than the people who are trying to keep workers out of the movement.
One side is literally advocating for inclusivity, while the other is arguing against it, my man.
It can be true that something is both an important right and used unethically by people that don’t actually care about the topic. See Rainbow capitalism as a very related example. Nutomic is right that identity politics are used to create division among the working class, because anything that can create division will be used to do so.
Sure, but the fact that some people’s basic rights and freedoms are divisive is not an excuse to abandon them. We can’t create a liberated society by accepting oppression. It needs to be confronted or changed in some way. I’m open to discussing the issue differently, or focusing more speech on other topics when possible but I’m not open to letting people be subject to state violence because their existence is unpopular. So what are we really proposing here?
See Rainbow capitalism as a very related example. Nutomic is right that identity politics are used to create division among the working class, because anything that can create division will be used to do so.
I mean that part is accurate. But abandoning whatever issue it is that is being used to create division is not the answer. They use all kinds of legitimate issues to create division. The solution is clearly to get rid of that whole concept where disagreement = division. Not to say that it’s just “all good” if I think people deserve human rights, and you don’t. We can still work together on some things, sure. I’m still going to give you hell about your bad point of view. A lot of people on the left seem to have this concept like it has to be a monoculture, like everyone has to see all issues of right and wrong and good and evil in exactly the same way, and if you don’t see it my way, then you’re a total shit and an enemy on purpose and I need to try to destroy you first before even trying to attempt anything against the right. And that tendency is one that the right absolutely loves to exploit, and they have wild success at it.
(Nutomic also in an extra irony takes it a step further, because his server will not just “divide” from you ideologically, but outright ban you if you try to say that some particular people deserve human rights.)
I think the problem with calls for unity is that they’re never calls for solidarity with marginalized groups, but rather demands for silence.
In it, he suggests that the ruling class promotes both LGBTQ+ rights and transphobia as a means to create division among the working class.
I will never understand how these phobes don’t understand that they are the ones promoting division in the working class by othering people who could be comrades.
If you’re othering people for what consenting adults do behind closed doors, you are the problem.
I think all things need to be discussed but people just have to be smart and not try to 5d chess things. Look at your options and make the best decision. Remember that most of our problems are wealth disparity and even many of the 1% recognize it is not even good for them. I have known many farmers, union folks, retired, all sorts that like to vote against their interest because they get into some zero sum, us or them, mindset. By and large whats good for others is good for me. I would love to be the lowest person on earth in a society where that is a good life.
I think it’s rather divisive. Can we talk about the important shit? Like is a hot dog a sandwich?
I don’t care who you are fucking as long as we stand united in eating the rich.
I don’t think it’s a conscious or intentional plot (a la Hanlon’s razor, never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity), or even specifically caused or furthered by the upper class. People would talk about these things anyway, as society progresses. But it does benefit them, to split the left like that, so that we’re so busy fighting amongst ourselves that we don’t fight against those who really matter.
Lot’s of people would like to strip social justice from leftist ideology and only view the world in a strict Marxist sense where class divisions are the only thing. They claim that a classless society will automatically solve bigotry so we don’t have to worry about that.
In reality modern racism and capitalism were born as conjoined twins and one cannot be understood without the other. Ironically, black radical thought in America has always been bifurcated and marginalized from other Marxists largely over the issue of racial capitalism. This in part explains black voter’s skepticism shown toward politicians like Sanders.
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Yeah maybe but what can we do about it? I’m not gonna de-transition
Is that an option? Serious question, never needed to think about specifics.
Medically yes, it often puts people right back in the suicidal state transition spared them from
Sounds like the classic leftist drama Monty Python was already making fun of 50 years ago. It’s never actually about what it’s claimed to be about.
All the world’s a stage, and all roads lead to the Vatican, to the Jesuit Superior General (currently Arturo Sosa), and the Pope (currently Leo XIV).
No. They’re not pushing [human] rights to then push the opposite to push division.
For division, they can push against rights, and still segregate them as others.
One set of people grants rights, and another set of people doesn’t like that and pushes against rights (often with lies and constructing otherlike and images of enemies).
