• BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
      11·
      3 hours ago

      It’s downright pavlovian how liberals have been trained to recite this mantra, word for word, when the West’s self assigned moral superiority is questioned.

    • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
      12·
      4 hours ago

      But which one is a lesser evil?

      During my lifetime the US has invaded/bombed and killed thousands [directly or indirectly] in:

      1. Afghanistan
      2. Iraq
      3. Syria
      4. Libya
      5. Sudan
      6. Pakistan

      The US has also facilitated a genocide in Palestine through weapon shipments, intelligence sharing, fleet placement and UN vetoes and is now preparing to invade Venezuela.

      China has not invaded or bombed any country during my lifetime.

      The funny thing about people saying “both countries can be bad” is that they will lose their minds if you tell them “both major parties in the US are bad”. Somehow they only accept “lesser-evilism” for themselves but not for others.

      • Deifyed@lemmy.ml
        210·
        4 hours ago

        Kinda hard to compare when china is so good at controlling what information comes out

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
          12·
          3 hours ago

          “During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
          9·
          3 hours ago

          “The fact that there is no evidence of adrenochrome baby-eating rings just proves how good they are at hiding it”

    • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml
      10·
      14 hours ago

      Overall it was a shitshow. Vietnam also ethnically cleansed its chinese minority and there was fighting at t he border because it was pretty much indefined. Furthermore, Vietnam ahd close ties to the USSR, with which China had recently broken. Thus China saw itself between the allied stated of Vietnam and USSR.

      Fittingly the resulting border war also was a total shitshow. A few PLA divisions pushing into Vietnam, without artillery or air support. Vietnam defended with local militias as its army was in Cambodia. China occupied some border cities, but took severe losses, then it went home. The vietnamese militias were excellent fighters but lacked heavy arms, so all they could do is delay the chinese (which they did admirably). Both sides claimed victory and the relations between the two countries were in the gutter until a few years ago.

    • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml
      8·
      14 hours ago

      Notice the flags? This is not about imperial China, it is about the PRC.

      Or are you one of the weirdos who also thinks Russian Empire = USSR = Russian Federation?

      • Saapas@piefed.zipEnglish
        31·
        7 hours ago

        It seems weird to include different time periods for either one. I’d cut out USA stuff prior to PRC existing out so it’s more even comparison

      • grahamja@reddthat.com
        22·
        7 hours ago

        Notice the war in 598? The one mislabeled as a war of defence? When the Sui dynasty invaded Korea?

        Are you one of those weirdos that doesn’t bother to look stuff up instead of reposting?

    • juliebean@lemmy.zip
      96·
      1 day ago

      yeah, i think this is relying pretty heavily on people’s ignorance of china’s history to seem even remotely believable. idk why they feel the need to lie anyway, cause china’s record in the modern day is still undeniably better than the US’s.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        15·
        1 day ago

        Pretty sure the intention was the PRC’s history, and used China as a way to let people who don’t know what the PRC is. Poor formatting, I agree.

  • FoundFootFootage78@lemmy.mlEnglish
    1215·
    24 hours ago

    South China Sea? Granted building a military base in another country’s waters isn’t technically an attack but … come on.

    Also Tibet. Whether or not it was a legitimate “state” it was definitely an “other nation”.

    • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml
      151·
      15 hours ago

      The claims in the South China Sea overlap. Some islands are claimed by Brunai, Malasia and the Philipines, others are claimed by the PRC and the Philipines.

      The military bases are less because of claims but because the US is sending its warships through this area all the time in a “nice trade routes you have here, would be sad if someone did something about them…”-move.

      Tibet was a part of China, it was essentially a warlord territory. With the warlord being the Dalai Lhama. It did not consider itself “other nation”, which is obvious from the fact that its regime did agree to join the PRC. Both sides came to an accord regarding the conditions, most importantly Tibet had to abolish slavery within a agreed uppon timeframe. The Lhama regime did not do so, thus peaceful unification was off the table and the PLA did the unifying.

      • FoundFootFootage78@lemmy.mlEnglish
        68·
        15 hours ago

        1. Tibet had a different language, culture, government than the Republic of China.

        2. Didn’t say Tibet was a good nation, just an “other nation”.

        • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
          121·
          8 hours ago

          Tibet has been a part of China longer than Ohio has been a part of the US. It is clear which indigenous people did better and which practically don’t exist anymore.

        • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml
          141·
          15 hours ago

          You first point is such a vapid one. China is a multi cultural state, lots of different cultures and languages. The governemnt of the region back then clearly did not consider it important enough, because they were fine with joining China.

    • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
      295·
      2 days ago

      “Neither Washington nor Beijing, but a secret third thing (it’s Washington)”

      • ILoveUnions@lemmy.world
        616·
        21 hours ago

        Ignore the genocide that y’all love to lie about. Ignore the oppression of their own citizens. Ignore the fascist take over of hong kong. Ignore that only their approved candidates can hold office. Ignore the disappearing of citizens. Both are godawful Nations.

        • davel@lemmy.mlEnglish
          131·
          14 hours ago

          So both sides bad. Good media consumer; stay paralyzed by hopelessness.

          It is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.

          The reason the rich & powerful put so much effort into shoving that bullshit down our throats is that the truth threatens their legitimacy. We’re not supposed to see that a better world is possible.

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
          161·
          19 hours ago

          Ignore the genocide that y’all love to lie about.

          That’s the one who’s only sources is literal CIA radio free Asia cutouts and one Mr Adrian, “I am on a mission from God to destroy Beijing” Zenz, correct? The one funded by NED money? Whose “local” front organization is straight-up headquartered in Washington DC?If we’re lying about that, shouldn’t you be able to prove it? Gaza is the most heavily controlled and censored place on earth, yet I still see daily video of the killing. Xinjiang is an open tourist mecca that saw 300 million visitors from around the world last year, yet nobody has seen one shred of violence. Make it make sense for me, cultist.

          Ignore the oppression of their own citizens.

          I watched four riot cops break a college kid’s arm right in front of me for being against Palestinian genocide. And then shitlibs like you insisted I had to vote for the genocide to continue, or else I wanted the genocide to continue. Choke on your hypocrisy, fascist-in-denial.

          fascist takeover of Hong Kong

          It’s so cute when you try to use big words you don’t understand. Fascism is when you legally take reposession of your own territory that was taken from you by open, rapacious colonialists. Fascism is when ethnic Russians in Ukraine call for help against the literal US-backed nazis terrorizing them for a decade. If you were around for WW2, your smug, know-nothing supremacist ass would have been calling every allied victory fascist, because you don’t know shit about shit.

          Ignore that only their approved candidates can hold office.

          What the fuck does this mean?? Yeah, you have to be voted into office to hold it. No shit? “Oh but the CCP-” shut up. The CPC has over nine million members, and is the largest of nine political parties in the People’s Republic of China. It enjoys a 95% satisfaction rate among the people there so unless you want to argue that they’re all just too stupid to understand how bad their lives actually are without the freedoms of crushing medical debt and gambling app, I suggest you look to Occam’s Razor and entertain the notion that perhaps you have been propagandized to thoughtless repeat these vague and sinister-sounding canards, that you and I who live in the biggest anticommunist propaganda bubble history has ever seen, actually know very little for sure about the enemies of the rich pedophiles who own us.

          Both are godawful nations

          And here we reach the inevitable conclusion of liberal analysis, the ultimate course of liberal praxis: do nothing, sit smugly in despair, make no practical choices, shit our pants and wait for fascism to kill us all. But hey, at least by doing nothing but symbolic art-protests at the gestapo as they kneel us before the trench, we can await the bullet with the knowledge that we were never tainted by the dirty work of actually building an alternative, unlike those filthy tankies.

          Liberal epistemology is a joke, liberal ideology is a genocidal self-deluding joke, and the reason liberalism is being eaten alive from both ends by both communists and fascists is because it’s not actually designed to understand power, only to hypocritically excuse it when it’s exercised against humanity by a handful or western billionaires and condemn it when it’s exercised against the billionaires by the organized masses of humanity. Free Palestine, long live the Chinese People’s Revolution, Death to America.