Basically title, I participated in an interesting exchange over the past day or so, and it made me wonder what some of the more useful resources are for men to learn about their bodies, hormones, brains, emotions, support networks, etc.
So I’m interested in websites, forums, video series, books, whatever. Links would be great if you’ve got them.
(Disclaimer: I am not male myself, which is why I’ve no idea, and am curious, but if this gains traction, I’d also just like to have this post be a resource. It’s good to periodically take stock of what’s out there.)
The manosphere is the biggest, most visible thing ‘for men’ anyone searching is likely to find. I’m not saying every sex-discrimination based division is innately bad, just that it’s best to be wary of individuals and organizations that try to claim that space. Many of them, and many of the most visible, are not really there for the benefit of the members. Heck, some of them start on one side of the line and then cross it at some point.
If the goal is to create a world where men feel they are emotionally supported, it would be better to seek a system/situation that enables men to be open with and supported by both men and women. It may be easier to start with a group that shares some identity marker, such as sex, but it creates a… misleading experience to have the supportive kindness in someone’s life come from men, or some other identity group, and risk the experience of women, or other outsiders to that identity group, being all/mostly/noticeably unsupportive strangers. Not everyone has the maturity to understand there might be a dynamic at play distorting their perceptions. Nothing is innate to a ‘men only’ space that encourages that maturity, especially given the world’s dynamics with sex and gender as already in place. Thus, one must be very careful.
any sex determined grouping is going to have a ton of biases that are apt to become self-fufilling prophecies.
that’s the rub. but ‘for men’ is ‘negative’ whereas ‘for women’ is positive, due to our current western biases.
plenty of women only groups are just as fucked up and toxic as the ‘manosphere’. it’s just generally not seen as a social threat the way ‘men only’ thinking is.
like incels are bad and evil, but women incels are not.
That has a lot to do with the perception of how those dynamics visibly play out. Men who group up and reinforce toxic ideation will tend to generate visible violence. Women who do so tend not to become visibly violent. (Visible here meaning at the broad societal/media level)
there are have been violent male incels and female incels.
but only one of those gets media play, due to cultural sex biases.
just like female pedophiles get a pass and male pedophiles are witch-hunted. nobody calls for the tortue and wrap of women pedophiles, weird right?
There is a difference of scale and type. The male incel community tends to produce outwardly focused violence, which sometimes hits at a larger scale, sometimes seemingly completely indiscriminately, or tying into other ideologies of hate. Femcel communities tend to produce smaller, more focused violence. They don’t produce mass shootings/stabbings in anywhere near the same amounts.
As for the pedophile double-standard, I suspect that has to do with a visibility bias rooted in most of the people espousing those views being violent adult men with traditional understandings of gender.
I appreciate your voice of caution.
To the second half of your comment, I think I’d propose we do not necessarily always need an asterisk on a male-specific support space. Yes, we should all support each other, but I think modern feminism and the good of the feminist movement has shown us that many, many decent men are quietly suffering just to get by, and not necessarily a part of the reactive toxic masculinity sphere. Perhaps finding the maturity for that balanced space where anyone can generally support any other still needs an interim step, slowly working towards a more centered place of generalised acceptance, and, dare I ask for it, calm.
It is also possible we’re talking past each other, but I felt it worth saying :)
modern feminist thinking regard men’s suffering as progress for women. because it seems to think women’s progress must come at the expense of men. it’s largely antagonistic.
non-antagonistic feminist or gender theorizing doesn’t get much social traction because human beings want to root for their group and boo the opposite group. people can’t get behind rooting for everyone. they can get behind rooting for men vs women though, just like any other group vs group oppositional dynamic.
I would suggest that the reason some men may need safe male spaces, is similar to the reason some women need safe female-only spaces. Not only does toxic masculinity exist, toxic femininity also exists, even if it is less pervasive. We live in a highly narcissistic culture where people who don’t understand the experiences of those different from themselves feel entitled to shit on them.
That said, we should be highly suspicious of those with an axe to grind making prescriptions about what it means to be male.
toxic femininity is socially normalized in a way that toxic masculinity is not. this has changed from say two generations ago when toxic masculinity was more normalized.
a woman flying into a rage about how men are all awful evil rapists… would mostly find agreement with her sentiments from both sexes. a man flying into a rage about how women are awful and evil… would get almost universally condemned.